Apology - Question - E500 Estate

[Ben Kenobi]

First the apology - first post, not even a Mercedes owner, yet, I'm posting because I couldn't see the search facility as a guest, don't even know if I'll buy a Merc yet.

Currently I'm in an Audi A8 4.0 quattro - but I keep needing to liberate the Passat estate from the missus - so I thought I'd look around for an estate with the performance and features of an A8.

My A8 basically looks tame but goes like a scorched cat should you so desire it (mines reprogrammed and putting out 300+ bhp with 750nm of torque from 1800rpm - so it 'goes') but it is quiet, refined and doesn't attract the attention of the ner do wells, at least it hasn't yet. OK it isn't a C63 or an SL55 AMG but it is still well able to see off the maximum legal limit in this country in circa 8 seconds.

SO - the question and I've been through about 40 pages of threads here as a guest looking for advice specific to the 2004 E500 7GTronic Estate.

Would an Audi driver get along with it ?

What sort of bad habits do they have ? - I have read some scary stories here about rear suspension, a bit about brakes, also a lot of "best car I've ever had" remarks and I miss my W211 (which I assume is what the 2004 E500 is).

So is the E500 (a low mileage 70k with full history) worth chasing, I don't care about mpg, you don't look at a car in this league if money is top of your concerns list - but it is on the list.

If the Audi ever needs the timing chains doing the cost is eyewatering and will exceed anything justifiable.

So what to look for, what to avoid, what to have on the shopping list, sorry but I like horses so 2 litres - nah - must be on a par with the Audi. I know zero about Merc's other than nearly every other taxi in Europe is one.

 

[developer]

Hello Ben, an E estate is an S211- they are great, being the largest estate you can buy.

I'm on my 4th.

2004 will be pre facelift and there are documented problems, primarily SBC and electrical gremlins.

If you could stretch to a facelift, SBC is gone and most of the electrical problems were resolved.

 

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm just weighing the options - I could go newer probably - I guess I'm just working out whether I could live with one. I've looked at the A6 and the E class - but both are feature poor by comparison with the A8 - so it needs to tick other boxes to stay on my good side.

Money isn't my prime motivator, I'm a bit fussy with my daily driver, if it lets me down, can't be trusted or simply doesn't make the connection - not sure how to explain that - I tend not to keep them around long. I'm also starting to shy away from newer cars - depreciation and the amount of emissions related issues - DPF's, EGR's and all manner of other systems that cause nothing but trouble not to mention massive cost.

I stick to German because so far the standards have never let me down - I've had a whole list of Passat Estates - been one on the drive for the last 15 years. The wife won't go out in the Audi because she knows the score if it gets hurt - plus I don't think she's up to handling it.

I got rid of a BMW 540 Touring because the depreciation was dire and quite frankly BMW dealers are thieves.

Just how bad are the issues on the pre-facelift cars - I've read some reports about Mercedes build quality being very poor in that era - and do the facelift cars have issues but just different ones.

 

[developer]

The wife won't go out in the Audi because she knows the score if it gets hurt

 

[Ben Kenobi]

Not sure what that means - she is the first to confess that she isn't the best at car care or spatial awareness - and when she damages it I make her pay to fix it.

 

[merc85]

Tbh i think you should stick to your Audi's,

 

[guydewdney]

Less bits randomly fall off mercs. (My mum has an a5 and dashboard bits keep dropping off).....

 

[MercedesDriver]

and when she damages it I make her pay to fix it.

If you are looking for a car with 300+ bhp for your wife you should budget a repair costs for it when she damages it, and to be honest she probably will. She is coming out of fwd Passat straight into a high performance rwd beast. Regarding the maintenence costs of as you said E500 upto 70k miles with fsh I don't think you should worry about. If service history shows regular brake fluid and gearbox oil change it will serve her well. If it has FMBSH it went through all recalls and gremlins were sorted out.

 

[Ben Kenobi]

Bits falling off - I've had no issues like that - yet -

The wife uses the Passat exclusively and she's happy with it - 140 bhp.

And why should I stick with Audi - it's a fair comment, there's a lot to like in the big Audi's. I'm trying to figure out if I could find a compromise that would work, thats why I asked the question - the Audi's nice but it isn't practical.

I'm happy enough to give a Merc a try but buying a dog wouldn't provide the right impression - so I ask the experts.

PPS - The Merc is for me - to replace the Audi

 

[E55BOF]

2004 will have SBC - circa £1250 or more to get it fixed at an indie. If it has airmatic suspension, that can cost around £1000 a corner to fix if it goes wrong. Other than that (!!!!) there are no real, regular, failure items. I'd check to see if either has been repaired recently - it might well have had an SBC unit replaced recently at that mileage.

You would pay more for an E55K, and the E500 isn't slow, but it's basically an E55K with a less powerful engine. Both engines are bombproof, but the old five-speed transmission in the E55K is generally thought to be more robust than the seven-speed box.
If you can afford it, an E55k would be no less or more reliable, but it would make your A8 feel like a slug by comparison.

Whichever you buy, if you buy either, potential costs are high; sadly, depreciation doesn't affect maintenance costs...

 

[Ben Kenobi]

I can handle maintenance I hope, as for making the Audi look like a slug - that would add many points (hopefully not to the license).

I just replaced the calipers, disks and pads all round on the Audi - just shy of 2k, the suspension struts - also air are circa £750 (from Audi) - I tend to do all my own work but there are some jobs that specialist tools are needed for - to do the high pressure fuel pump on the Audi the engine and entire front subframe needs to be lowered - 36 hours at £155 per hour + VAT + parts ....

So big cars are big risk, accepted, can't run a high tech motor on beer money ...

I just want to try and appreciate where the costs may be so that extra attention can be paid to those areas, as you say see if bits have been replaced / repaired. If its been done the theory being good for another 70k.

The E55 is now on the list of potentials.

 

[merc85]

2 Completly different cars, i presume you Audi is a 4.0 ltr Diesel going on your power specs and is mapped std spec 275bhp 650nms @ 1,800rpm its also 4wd so will handle better to and being a audi probably give you a sporty drive which by the way i read your post is the way you like a car to drive.

A e500 of the era your talking is 5ltr 306bhp / 459nms @ 2,700 and around the same weight, the ride will be softer alot more comfortible with a ultra strong Autobox compard with Vag offerings Its large cruiser and wont compel you to drive it hard or fast , but will simply be and feel slower and of course be heavier on fuel too not that your worried.

They are just two very different cars, I believe electrical issue certainly wont be any worse than the VAG vehicles, ive havent had any on my s211 e320 cdi and thats a 53 reg with full history.

 

[Ben Kenobi]

Yup that's the Audi, it really does handle well, the suspension has all kinds of stuff going on to control roll etc etc, also ride height. I leave it on Auto all the time.

I am happy to cruise most of the time, too many speed cameras etc etc, but its nice to be able to blow the spiders away should I feel the need and the opportunity present.

The Audi electrics are mega temperamental, they are very sensitive to having the appropriate battery fitted (which has to be coded into the 'energy management' system). Could offer all kinds of information but this isn't a VAG forum ...

 

[merc85]

If your budget allow's you to get a e55k, then thats a totally different ball game lol

 

[Ben Kenobi]

Just looking for one now - not getting many hits on estate versions.

 

[merc85]

Just looking for one now - not getting many hits on estate versions.

You wont, there like hens teeth at sensible money

 

[Ben Kenobi]

I've found a few nice C63 AMG estates but, they're too new for me.

C63 AMG - nice but attracts too much of the wrong kind of attention, I got rid of an Evo for similar reasons. That's the kind of car that goes on a thieves shopping list, plus our region is number three on the 'crash for cash' scams.

With regards the too new part - I've seen too much money disappear in depreciation in my time, I worked out that my BMW cost me £700 a month just to sit on the drive, I lost 4k just driving off the forecourt, don't do that any more, better things to spend money on. All my cars tend to be between 4 and 8 years old (but I have a 40 year old one, a 20 year old one and I think the others 22).

My list is looking like if I do go for an estate it will be a Merc of some description. There are a few ML's around but not really into that kind of motor, plenty of 2.1 / 2.2 estates, there are 320's but most have starship mileages, I really don't fancy the newer ones with all the stupidly complex emission controls - what happened to cars you could 'DIY' - because those you sure can't - no factory diagnostics, no fix - at least I have the software and cables to interrogate anything VAG - I've seen stuff for Mercedes but many say it doesn't work on newer models - even more reason to buy an old one.

 

[mct_cars]

At 70k, make sure the air suspension is okay - no leaks, pump works and doesn't crash over bumps (which would mean the electronic shocks are knackered - usually on the rear).

Great cars but as said, like hen's teeth. As for safety, yes they're quick but unless you mash the pedal, they burble around like any other car. If you do mash the pedal, they have traction / stability control so you'd have to be really trying or have it switched off to be in any more danger than any other lesser engine car!

 

[regbuser]

hi ben,

did you not consider the passat R36 estate?

if you want something 4+ years old that's fast, well the CLS 350SB is plenty fast enough

Developer is the man to talk to about W211 and W212 fast estates

 

[Teflonso]

I swapped a Passat estate (always missed the Audi) for my lowly E350 estate. The only competition for my money was an A6 Quattro,

On paper it is every bit as quick in all departments as the Golf GTI I had at the same time. In practice, if I want it to do so, it will just gobble tarmac as quick as the Golf but with no drama, no screaming & shouting, nobody wanting to race me at the lights. My missus is absolutely relaxed with it - something she never was with the GTI even though she's got the same turbo 4 pot tFSI engine in her own car.

Anyone who actually needs an estate that can pull the flesh off their face as a second car isn't right in the head.

.