Are Large Capacity Petrols A Dying Breed

[LTD]

Yep I think in 5yr time we will be looking at smaller engines all round with turbos / twin turbos or a mixture of hybrids etc.

... and HUGE repair bills

 

[sinewave]

Formula One’s last turbo era ended in 1988, a season dominated by the 1.5 litre V6 Honda-powered McLaren’s of Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna.
They were banned by the FIA along with active suspension and aerodynamics as things were getting way out of hand at near on 1500 bhp in Quali trim.

If development continued un-checked the cars would have needed to be driven by Robots as the human being would have simply passed out with the ever rising G forces.

The sport returned to naturally aspirated engines in 1989, with a new 3.5 litre formula.

However..................................

The FIA, motorsport’s governing body, has confirmed that Formula One racing will move to new engine regulations in 2014, with the current 2.4 litre V8s being replaced by more efficient 1.6 litre, turbocharged V6s.

The FIA had originally planned a switch to four-cylinder engines in 2013, but has approved the revised formula in light of concerns formalised last week by various interested parties.

“Following a fax vote by its members, the World Motor Sport Council has ratified the engine regulations recently drawn up in consultation with the main stakeholders in Formula One,” read an FIA statement.

“The new power plant will be a V6 1.6 turbo unit with energy recovery systems. This new formula will come into effect as from the start of the 2014 FIA Formula One World Championship season.”

The new energy recovery systems (ERS) will replace the current kinetic energy recovery systems (KERS) and are expected to be more powerful. Combined with the legalisation of turbocharging, they will ensure overall power outputs remain similar to current levels, despite an anticipated drop in the permitted rev limit.

 

[LTD]

With regards to F1, I'd love the regulations to be relaxed totally again.

F1 is meant to be the pinnacle of Motorsport - innovation and technological advancement and application to achieve maximum performance should be the modus operandus.

The only restrictions that should apply to a manufacturer is dimensions and fuel allowance.

Who needs a DRS zone if you have adequate power ?

 

[gIzzE]

Hello J,

It's this engine I was referring to at #1, after seeing an Audi ad claiming 5.1 to 62mph in an A6, an E Class sized car .

Isn't the Audi a bit behind the times?

BMW now have the tri-turbo 6cyl 3 litre diesel with 381ps 740nm of torque and does the spring to 60mph in 4.6 second officially, but timed at 4.45!

But it is still a diesel and I would rather but a car like that in petrol form everytime.

 

[sinewave]

Yes, you're not wrong gIzzE!

BMW's amazing new 381 bhp 740 Nm 45 mpg triple turbo diesel (and four cars that will get it)

 

[sinewave]

Yes, you're not wrong gIzzE!

BMW's amazing new 381 bhp 740 Nm 45 mpg triple turbo diesel (and four cars that will get it)

 

[LTD]

We discussed the diesel vs. petrol thing recently over a curry.

Whilst diesels are giving comparable performance levels and better economy, having a big power delivery over a longer rev range makes for a more pleasurable driving experience - especially when you start getting into 'real' performance levels (less than 6 sec / 150mph plus).

There must be a reason that 'proper' sports car manufacturers still stick to petrol engines ...

 

[corned]

There must be a reason that 'proper' sports car manufacturers still stick to petrol engines ...

You mean like the manufacturers who have won at Le Mans over the last five years or so?

 

[LTD]

You mean like the manufacturers who have won at Le Mans over the last five years or so?

Let's stick to real-world applications ....

 

[mika]

Yes, walk this way

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/mb-d...131637-bmw-alpina-b3s-biturbo-saloon-f30.html

 

[mattc]

Was recently at a turbocharging conference in London. To meet EU laws the major manufacturers (borgwarner, Honeywell etc) need to reduce emissions by somewhere between 2.5 and 4% per annum for the next 5 or 6 years. They are exploring many methods all aimed at saving 0.6% here, 1.1% there.

The 2 biggest improvements will be improved reduced friction ball bearings for the turbine wheel shafts and material changes to the turbine wheel. Currently use nickel alloys at just over 8 gr/cm3. Next generation material will probably be titanium aluminide at about 4 gr/cm3. This will reduce the lag as spin up rates improve.

The demand to reduce emission means displacements will get smaller and trick sequential turbo charging will be seen throughout manufacturers engine ranges. It will not be kept on high end engines alone for long.

Sorry for the diversion. Yes, large displacement engines will get ever rarer.

 

[LTD]

The biggest reduction in emissions will be by us electing to buy used cars with huge petrol engines rather than buying a new car that creates more CO2 emissions in it's manufacturing process than it will ever create.

Making a car is the biggest pollutant of all in the motoring industry.

 

[Dieselman]

... and HUGE repair bills

What do you mean?
I thought the Toyota hybrids were meant to be the most reliable Toyota cars.

 

[Dieselman]

There must be a reason that 'proper' sports car manufacturers still stick to petrol engines ...

Because that's what people think they need so will pay for.

They are also cheaper to design and build so a double win for the manufacturer.

 

[Dieselman]

The biggest reduction in emissions will be by us electing to buy used cars with huge petrol engines rather than buying a new car that creates more CO2 emissions in it's manufacturing process than it will ever create.

Making a car is the biggest pollutant of all in the motoring industry.

At about 15% of overall Co2 emissions, how is manufacture the largest polluter and energy consumer?

 

[Dieselman]

Still, hard to beat the noise of a big old fashioned V8 burble.

True, but to make noise means wasted energy/fuel.

 

[wemorgan]

It wasn't so many decades ago that sports cars had inline 8 cylinder 20 litre engines. Now they're seen as inefficient but beautiful classic cars. The same will surely happen to today's sports cars.

Some people will mourn the loss, but as the new technology engines win races, as they currently do at Le Mans, the public will warm to them.

 

[twixfits]

.....
There must be a reason that 'proper' sports car manufacturers still stick to petrol engines ...

The extra weight & torque of the diesel engine and the requirement of strengthening associated parts....maybe

 

[SavMan]

As long as they keep making them faster I don't mind. Capacity, forced induction, fuel type no issue for me. A sub 2 sec 0-60 and 250+ mph top speed will do for now, oh and greater than 100mpg equivalent.

 

[markjay]

It wasn't so many decades ago that sports cars had inline 8 cylinder 20 litre engines. Now they're seen as inefficient but beautiful classic cars. The same will surely happen to today's sports cars.

Some people will mourn the loss, but as the new technology engines win races, as they currently do at Le Mans, the public will warm to them.

Inline 8 cylinder 20 litre engines died for a reason. V-engines provide more balanced operation, less weight, shorter front overhang (in front engined cars), and lower centre of gravity. There is a point beyond which fitting physically larger engine no longer benefits the car overall due to the additional engine's weight and its distribution, plus the weight of the strengthened chassis needed to hold the engine down.

When something becomes obsolete because something better comes along, this is progress. If Diesel or Hybrid outperform Petrol, then they rill reign. But at the moment the main force behind Diesel and Hybrid is driven by other considerations (environmental rather than performance).