At what point did the W124 take a nosedive?

[Chicane]

Its common consensus that at one point, the bean counters came and and started cutting costs re: the W124.

Some say its the facelift in 1993/1994 which marks the beginning of the nosedive in quality - but did it come even earlier?

Just curious.

 

[230K]

Hi

In my opinion the pre-facelift (pre '93) is more rugged than the facelift.

Having worked on both I find the earlier one better.

Others will have different opinions I am sure but that is my thoughts

230K

 

[jaymanek]

They are excellent cars to the end... the only quality issue that springs to mind is the wiring loom which affects 93-96ish cars AFAIK.

 

[mercboiuk]

I wouldn't say the bean-counter effect properly started until the W210 from 1995/96 mode year, thus not affecting the 124 range at all.

I suppose some could say the W202 C-Class wasn't as well built as the 190 before, which would mean 1993/94.

Others say the W220 wasn't as proper as the W140, which would mean 1999 would be the year.

What I guess I am saying is that there is no definite year in my opinion, but it was staggered as and when new model generations were released.

Darren

 

[Chicane]

Was for instance the 90-91 models lesser than - say the 87 models?
Was it a continous slide or a more marked once where you can say
"Before XX/XX, they were like this and after XX/XX they were like this"

 

[grober]

Its difficult to cut cost an existing design to any great extent. In the main the W124 maintained its over-engineering design to the end of its life- likewise the R129 which had much of its basic engineering based on the w124 chassis. However I maintain there was a change to the durability of the paint finish with the switch from solvent to water based paint systems around the time of the facelift 92-93. There were "aberrations" such as the wiring loom insulation breakdown but those stemmed from environmental concerns rather than cost cutting-- the engine changes of the pre and post face lift models required a change to the wiring loom anyway so was when the new type of wiring insulation was introduced.

 

[Bellow]

When MB read in that book that ''A Mercedes spent more time in the rectification bay than a Toyota spent on the production line''. That's what changed everything at MB.

 

[Charles Morgan]

I remember that Bellow - the figure I recall was that an S Class (W126) took three times longer in quality control rectification than it took Toyota to build a perfect Lexus. This of course was reflected in the pricing of the cars.

 

[bolide]

W124 fanciers may argue this all they like. It's a bit like discussing the radius of curvature of a banana - of intense interest to some but irrelevant to the taste

There are now only good and bad W124s - year, spec, service history & etc are now irrelevant. Find a good one and stick with it

Nick Froome

 

[WesLangdon]

I agree with Grober the earlier cars seem less rust prone whereas even now its rare to see a facelift car that isn't badly rusted. If in doubt check the jacking points as these are always a good indication of how a car has fared
The facelift itself is confused as you can get later cars with the crumbling looms in what appears to be a pre facelift vehicle

 

[V12]

Don't worry, they're no 203 c class!

 

[chriswt]

Don't worry, they're no 203 c class!

That's reasurring

 

[Will]

I reckon the more 'basic' pre-facelift 124s were just a little bit better built or perhaps better described as being more 'durable'. The earlier cloth seats seem to wear their miles better (eg driver's bolster), they didn't have the chocolate wiring looms, paint seemed a bit better (maybe as Grober mentioned - solvent vs. water based?), no MBSS/IR keys to worry about, 4-speed 'boxes a little tougher, textured black plastic impact strips in the bumpers much tougher etc.

I had a very well used 300TE with 200k miles on it - engine never used a drop of oil or water, 4-spd box shifted like new, interior was immaculate (inc driver's seat), and aside from some minor rust in the usual place on the front wings it was solid. Not a spot of rust under the bonnet/inner wings/jacking points etc all perfect. I've seen much newer 124s where the inner wings have rusted badly away near the washer bottle/ABS pump etc so maybe this is an indication?

As bolide says, probably more difference car-to-car these days, but all things being equal I would say that the early 90s cars had a slight edge over the mid-90s facelift ones

 

[219]

Can't say I have noticed any particular difference .

I put 150K on my 89 300TE over about 9 years , then had my 300TE-24 which had done 430K by the time it was written off .

Having driven numerous other 124's both earlier and later than these , as well as my 1999 Indian built one , I can't say that I noticed any particular difference .

I would say , without any question , that build quality in W123 , R107 , W126 and W201 were all easily better than W124 .

As an old friend , and longtime Mercedes fan , once said to me " every new model they bring out - it gets worse " - and that was when he had just replaced his (owned from new) W108 with an end of line W116 !

 

[Chicane]

I personally find it somewhat inplausible that Mercedes w201 has a higher build quality...

 

[teddycatkin]

I have owned and driven both -but prefer the M111 engine in the last of the facelifts.

 

[Tiff]

I much prefer pre Sacco board cars- purer and no fancy stuff

 

[haggis2768]

As previously mentioned, its a moot point now,these cars are now old enough for the good,well looked after cars to be easily recognized amongst the multi-owner abused examples. Like any old car there are weak points to look out for,this forum has an excellent buyers guide for the W124. Personally I sold a solid rust free Citroen CX safari to fund my C124,which although much younger,does have some rust showing in the usual places,,I liked the CX but I love the 124!!!

 

[teddycatkin]

Its common consensus that at one point, the bean counters came and and started cutting costs re: the W124.

Some say its the facelift in 1993/1994 which marks the beginning of the nosedive in quality - but did it come even earlier?

Just curious.

The first buit W124-was possibly worst of all production after taking over the very solidly built W123's--the facelift with M111 engine was the last and best ?

 

[haggis2768]

As previously mentioned, its a moot point now,these cars are now old enough for the good,well looked after cars to be easily recognized amongst the multi-owner abused examples. Like any old car there are weak points to look out for,this forum has an excellent buyers guide for the W124. Personally I sold a solid rust free Citroen CX safari to fund my C124,which although much younger,does have some rust showing in the usual places,,I liked the CX but I love the 124!!!