Sbryantgb
Active Member
I have a pre facelift (89) 230ce and a face lift (95) e320c. They are mechanically two different cars, but the quality between both seems equal.
At what point did the W124 take a nosedive?
Well according to some, it did.
A bloke I know who calls himself skwdenyer over at pistonheads put it this way:
For anyone considering a 4matic, a few observations, if I may, having owned several 2- and 4-wd, pre- and post-facelift W124 wagons.
Post-facelift cars are not as well put together. Front wings rust, bumpers are much less durable, interior materials (including the steering wheel - unpleasant) and many parts were cheapened, wing mirror housings crack very easily, and so on. Each difference is small, but cumulatively they are enough to notice on a first drive, and affect the ownership proposition. Against that, the 24V engines are lovely and much more fuel-efficient, the revised interiors are perhaps more acceptable to modern sensibilities, and they look just a touch more modern.
4matics are great in the right conditions, but are a very complex way to achieve a minor benefit over, say, a contemporary Sierra XR4x4 with a simple VC centre diff. It is fun to drive hard around a wet, sweeping bend, feel the back end start to move, and respond by applying more throttle to 'trigger' the front drive to pull the car round. The downsides? Awful fuel economy, terrible turning circle (poor by many standards, dreadful compared to the wonderful 2wd W124 lock), compromised handling (the back end slides more because the ride height is taller, not particularly for off-road benefit, but simply to make room for all of the hardware).
Be very careful come MOT time. Most places can't brake test 4wd cars. Under the bonnet, there's a lever to lock out the 4matic system, but beware: lock it out, then 'max' the car on the rollers for the MOT brake test, and prepare for a potentially large bill. Instead, find a friendly MOT garage who will do the brake testing on a short road-test instead.
4matic components are scarce and expensive. A lot of the parts in the suspension and drivetrain are 'specials', not just the obvious bits.
But, get a good one, and it is a very satisfying experience; you can sense all the uber-complex electro-mechanical tech at work even on a drive to the shops.
A bloke I know who calls himself skwdenyer over at pistonheads put it this way:
For anyone considering a 4matic, a few observations, if I may, having owned several 2- and 4-wd, pre- and post-facelift W124 wagons.
Post-facelift cars are not as well put together. Front wings rust, bumpers are much less durable, interior materials (including the steering wheel - unpleasant) and many parts were cheapened, wing mirror housings crack very easily, and so on. Each difference is small, but cumulatively they are enough to notice on a first drive, and affect the ownership proposition. Against that, the 24V engines are lovely and much more fuel-efficient, the revised interiors are perhaps more acceptable to modern sensibilities, and they look just a touch more modern.
4matics are great in the right conditions, but are a very complex way to achieve a minor benefit over, say, a contemporary Sierra XR4x4 with a simple VC centre diff. It is fun to drive hard around a wet, sweeping bend, feel the back end start to move, and respond by applying more throttle to 'trigger' the front drive to pull the car round. The downsides? Awful fuel economy, terrible turning circle (poor by many standards, dreadful compared to the wonderful 2wd W124 lock), compromised handling (the back end slides more because the ride height is taller, not particularly for off-road benefit, but simply to make room for all of the hardware).
Be very careful come MOT time. Most places can't brake test 4wd cars. Under the bonnet, there's a lever to lock out the 4matic system, but beware: lock it out, then 'max' the car on the rollers for the MOT brake test, and prepare for a potentially large bill. Instead, find a friendly MOT garage who will do the brake testing on a short road-test instead.
4matic components are scarce and expensive. A lot of the parts in the suspension and drivetrain are 'specials', not just the obvious bits.
But, get a good one, and it is a very satisfying experience; you can sense all the uber-complex electro-mechanical tech at work even on a drive to the shops.
Dieselman
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Maxing on the brake test? The rollers turn at about 2mph.
If that's Maxing, he needs a faster car.
carat 3.6
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I've got an 88 pre facelift, and a 96 post facelift in the fleet at the moment, as well as 2 previously owned pre facelift cars (both 89's). I've had more trouble with the later 96 car in 2 years, than the other 3 had in 8 years. 
V12
MB Enthusiast
I would listen to the people who work on them, not someone who can feel the complexities at work on the way to the shops...
Loads of 4 matic bits about of you know where to look. There was a time when I worked at mercman that we had a whole bay of complete 4 matics. That's 9 that we had for breaking.
Loads of 4 matic bits about of you know where to look. There was a time when I worked at mercman that we had a whole bay of complete 4 matics. That's 9 that we had for breaking.
carat 3.6
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No bout adoubt it .
I have owned several examples of both , worked on and driven many more , and can state categorically that the build quality of a 190 is closer to that of a W123 than that of a W124 - it stands to reason since the 190 is an earlier design , introduced before the 124 , and was massively over engineered because they did not want their first foray into the compact car market since the 1950's , a project vital to MB's survival , to fail .
Unless you have extensive experience of both , it won't be apparent .
millo777
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I can't really comment on the build quality of the early w124s vs the later, but would say that for me it's entirely irrelevant as the it wasn't until the 300-24 that the w124 got a decent engine and decent interior. The 1989 and older hold no appeal for me at all.
The routemaster steering wheels on the early cars are enough to put me off.
The routemaster steering wheels on the early cars are enough to put me off.
+1 I share the same sentiments. Just sold my 190E 2.3. Beautiful car but ultimately I wanted something faster, and a 2.6 wouldnt have been enough of a step up I reckon.
I bought a 300E-24 manual sportline which is another world really when it comes to performance.
Interesting perspective. Just cant for the love of god see the reasoning behind cheapening the W124 compared to the W201.
The importance of the W201 is one thing, but what about the importance of the E-class?
A W201 just doesn't feel any less well screwed together than a W123 or a W126 .
Sorry , but W124's are noticeably flimsier than any of them .
Oh , and I liked my 300TE every bit as much as the 24V version I replaced it with ; the 24V engine was notably smoother but not notably faster than the 12V , despite the significant difference on paper . Apart from a few minor details , the mushroom leather interiors in these two cars were all but identical .
Sorry , but W124's are noticeably flimsier than any of them .
Oh , and I liked my 300TE every bit as much as the 24V version I replaced it with ; the 24V engine was notably smoother but not notably faster than the 12V , despite the significant difference on paper . Apart from a few minor details , the mushroom leather interiors in these two cars were all but identical .
I think there is a big difference between the auto and the manual.
Mercedes 300e 24v. 0-200 km/h - YouTube
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That would usually be the case : I know my manual 280E (W114) was much faster than the automatic versions of the same car I also drove ( and the W114 had much sharper handling than the W123 which replaced it ) ; but since my 300TE and my 300TE-24 were both automatics then the comparison was a valid one .
Never heard about this common consensus before.
teddycatkin
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It became more obvious with the W210 1997 on --the C class was also begining production then costing a lot less to produce than W124 ---Mercedes cars went downhill in my opinion from that point on and this was proved by the complaints ?--it damaged the good reputation.
Some say they are back to quality standards with current new models ?
I could never afford or want one--but other manufactures like Audi and BMW are currently producing very high quality vehicles which seem to dominate the luxury car market nowadays ---drive down any motorway and count the Audi's that pass you ?
You're talking about MB's model range in the '80's, '90's & 00's, I & this thread are about the W124.
I've not heard anyone before lament the quality of W124s taking a nosedive & having owned & taken apart a few I can't say I've experienced it either.
teddycatkin
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I think he meant W210 ?
grober
MB Master
According to James Taylor's [ no relation to the singer]excellent book Mercedes Benz VOL4 the 1980's a collector's guide---- the W124 was by far the most successful model of the late 80's early90's as it's sales equalled the combined sales of the W201[ 190] and W126 [ S CLASS] put together. Its running gear was largely based on the 190's strut/spring front suspension and 5 link rear [ whose 5 link design still remains largely unchanged in todays cars- showing how good the 30 year old design remains]----- suitably scaled up for the larger car. So I guess you might argue the 190 was over-engineered or the W124 was merely a copy of an existing design? In terms of paint I reckon the last 190's also suffered from the water based paint introduction, but because they ended in 92/93 fewer were made and the blame was to be shouldered in the main by its replacement the W202 C -class. Where the W124 scored big time was with the introduction of alternative body types Coupe, Estate and Cabriolet which extended its appeal and their success may be judged by the fact they remain the most sought after versions of the car and commend higher prices today . The Achilles heel of the design of the 190 and W124 was their narrow front engine compartment and transmission tunnel which made the fitting of any wide V configuration engines difficult. The cars were designed after the oil crisis where it was thought that only the more economic straight 4 and 6 engines would be made with the larger V8s consigned to history. Some tricky body modifications post production meant that eventually a couple of V8 engines were shoehorned into the W124 but in very limited numbers------ an expensive move in a model not originally designed for it that would be an enathema to today's bean counters I fear ! I've had 2 190's and a W124 and they were all rock solid apart from the cylinder hed gasket which went on them all!
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