Right guys, I'm back now having driven to Stuttgart today to drop my car off with AMG. This is going to be a long one....
My drive down was sensational....that AMG is MADE for the German Autobahn. For about an hour I was in convoy with (no don't laugh!) a new W212 E350 CDI. Yes...diesel. But that guy could drive....we were constantly between 120 and 160mph and I've got to say, even doing 150+ round bends (with noticeable roll on the E350 in front of me!), the C63 was planted, stable and just brilliant.
But heres the funny bit - at 160mph I hit the limiter and the E350 CDI....PULLED AWAY! I couldn't believe it...I couldn't keep up with it. I know it must have had the limiter removed but its funny and bloody impressive for a diesel to go so fast!
When I got to AMG and spoke to the guy dealing with me, I discussed with him the things I was going to have done to my car and he actually advised me that, despite them being able to supply the 'old' C63 PP suspension to stiffen my car up, if I can get the Coilovers for the same money, that is the best option. Right from the horses mouth....he told me that the Coilovers (speaking about the KW's in this instance) are far superior to what they fit to their (non Black Series) cars!
I also discussed the engine and the DR520 and I think I might have ruffled a few feathers. To say AMG HQ are not impressed with MB UK is an understatement....they apparently know nothing about the DR520 and are unhappy that MB UK have done this package with 'someone else'. They too are assuming, as we've all thought, that this is a Brabus deal.
They were also ****** off that things like the retrimming is not done through them and that MB UK are going through alternative suppliers without even giving them the chance to bid for the work first! It's not that they're saying MB UK can't use anyone else but they feel they should be given a chance to get the business before it goes outside the group, which in this case they didn't.
Overall, they really do think that MB UK miss a trick with them as they apparently never get any orders for Designo / Performance Studio work from MB UK. The only time they deal with the UK is when customers such as me go to them directly. It appears MB UK don't tell our dealers what can be done at the Performance Studio BEFORE A CAR IS SHIPPED TO THE UK and as such we miss a lot of options that would be available if MB UK were bothered.
For instance, we only have the option of 3 interior colours on the C63 but there are plenty of other 'factory' options which are available for a premium (such as red)....but we don't even get the chance to pay that premium as nobody in the UK promotes it! They tell me it's just the UK...they get plenty of business from the other European and even US importers!
I would be intrigued to hear about the dark DMS stories...
Simon, what I have heard is not 1st hand information - i.e. I haven't experienced or seen it myself. Therefore, it may be a little unfair to give negative information about them but what I heard is enough to put me personally off using them.
The sort of things surround cars going into limp mode, ECU's failing and power outputs being less than standard.
Again, though, it may be unfair to judge this as they also probably have thousands of happy customers. It's just that with other companies you tend not to hear this stuff in the first place; the guys in the US don't seem to have any sort of trouble with Kleeman, Brabus have an astonishing warranty etc etc.
The mention of the Black series suspension prompted a memory of Jeremy Clarkson's column on the CLK Black he owned and how awful the ride was.
Yes, I remember that and yes, this does concern me. However, the units on the Black Series are locked down by AMG and are not adjustable - and they are clearly fixed to a very firm setting so I imagine (although I am not 100% sure) that I won't have to endure such a ride. In fact, from what I've researched and the info Jack has given, I expect the ride to be better!
I have spoken to the owner of CRP he is a nice guy and a MB enthusiast.
I have bought allot of Kleemann stuff but NOT from here, price here is almost double what it is in America.
Also if I were to modify a C63 I would only use these guys.
RENNTECH :: NEWS
Scroll down you will see their demo.
RENNtech are pricey but IMO the best.
Paul
Yes, they are very highly regarded in the US but where's the UK supplier? They don't appear to have one (probably not a big enough market) so it's quite hard to get an engine map other than send the ECU to the States - I would like to use their product but would rather use a company where I have a bit of 'local' backup.
I too have been dealing with (one of) the owners of CPR, Max. I was genuinely impressed with him and as I've said, they have come recommended.
Brabus and B63 is what I'd do.
So would I; just like my initial intention. But alas the budget is not limitless and the standard suspension needs sorting out. If I went with Brabus, I would be looking at the thick end of £11k + for the interior upgrades I'm having, the engine tune, the suspension and brake lines
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Hi Andrew,
Yes it will. The main difference is that no matter how expensive the car (to a point) they use the absolute cheapest damper units. I was shocked (pardon the pun) at how cheap and nasty the units that came off my car were. The stock Porsche units are still Bilstein, but they are bargain basement. There are 4 levels of damper between the ones that came off and the ones that went back on!
You get better construction, the ability to have them re-built, better design (mono-tube and inverted unit = better thermal capacity and reduced unsprung weight) and a host of other things.
The ride was much improved with the new damper. It responds better in high speed bumps (pot holes, lateral ridges, etc) giving a less jarring ride, but also better in slow speed bump, which is high-speed cornering, giving better body control and less roll. My car rides better and has less roll, and I haven't changed the anti-roll bars (or sway bars if you are talking to the Yanks).
The KW are liked by people that have them. But their design is old compared to the Bilstein PSS9's and there are people that have had warranty issues with them (KW). KW also have seperate compression and rebound adjustment, which sounds great, but does make it more tricky to set up. Adjustment is with a hex key in the top and bottom of each strut. Getting to the top of the strut is a real chore and requires removing interior trim. The beauty of the PSS9 is that is is a notched wheel on the base of the strut with 9 (or 10 with a PSS10) preset, indexed settings from hard to soft. Just turn the wheel and count the number of clicks. Very very simple.
If you have any doubt, call and speak to Chris Franklin at Center Gavity
center gravity : suspension & geometry tuning He is based in the midlands (Tamworth) and I cannot recommend him highly enough. He ONLY does suspension and has a huge following in the Porsche world. He is a complete perfectionist, and his attention to detail is beyond reproach. If you are serious about the handling of your car, I wouldn't go anywhere else.
Jack
Jack, fantastic information - thank you. Let me respond to each of these points.
Firstly, with regards to Centre Gravity, I actually spoke to Chris three weeks ago, I gave him my number (as he was busy at the time) and he called me back. I then discussed my requirements with him and he said he would do some reading up on my car and then call me back again. That call never came and I am of the opinion that there are plenty of people (who also come highly recommended) who want my business and are bothered to work for it. This apparent lack of interest from Chris is a shame as he's obviously very good but if he can't be bothered then my money will go elsewhere.
Now, those pictures of your Porsche and the info you have given on the Coilovers; this has sold the fact that I NEED these! I tend to do a couple of track days each year and I go to the Nurburgring at least once a year so handling IS important. One of my main concerns was whether the C63 could compare in an area where my previous M3 was probably at its best. As a road car, the C63 is far superior but on the standard suspension, theres just too much body movement when REALLY pushing on.
I didn't have this problem with my previous C63 with it's old Performance Pack springs that were stiffer and kept the car very flat - I was going to have these fitted to my new car but MB / AMG want £1500 for the parts and fitting - the Coilovers are only a little more so it's a no brainer, especially as you have confirmed the ride AND handling will improve.
I just cannot believe that these Coilovers can have such a dramatic impact on handling AND give a better ride! Theres got to be a downside?? Can you tell me please, how does it respond to fast mid corner bumps (i.e. on a fast motorway bend with a big ridge or undulation) and is the suspension any noisier? Last questions...I promise!
Right, is it PSS10's or KW's?? This really is starting to make me very anxious! The guys on the US forum reckon the KW's are the newer technology which is obviously very different to what you say. They are also the preferred brand over there and having spoken to AMG HQ today, they too were singing the praises of them...but then AMG would given it's their chosen supplier for the Black Series models!
Jack, I take your recommendation very seriously although I highly doubt that I would personally notice a massive difference between KW's and PSS10's - from what you've said, either of them are going to be awesome compared to stock. I have so far leaned towards KW due to the reasons above and the extra adjustability but your point regarding how they're adjusted is very valid and may ultimately change my mind. Thanks for the advice!
