C36 Amg engine into R107 SL project

[d w124]

Small update. After a few weekends off doing other stuff I finally got some time this evening to start up the 300SL and move it out of the garage. After sitting for over a year it started first turn of the key and ran great (seems a shame to be taking the engine out!)

This weekend I hope to get the 300 engine removed, will be a bit easier now it runs as I can drive it up on to ramps to make the underside more accessable.

In fact all going well I may also get the 36 engine fitted, if not plumbed in and ready to go.

Since your car is nice,why not start with this 1983 MERCEDES SL 280 SPORTS CONVERTIBLE MANUAL on eBay (end time 04-Jul-10 20:14:18 BST) .Don`t know if you would like two cars that look the same,but that`s just a thought

 

[219]

Ben , nice to see you over here as well !

This will be an interesting project . Re Jay's comment about performance of the 500SL , while the C36 engine has a power advantage , I don't know if the V8 lump has more torque ? I'd imagine it does at the bottom end ?

That aside , you've got the C36 engine and are getting on with it . I'd think the twin cam M104 weighs a fair bit more than the single cam M103 - so you may need to uprate the front springs ?

I guess the standard diff will be OK , assuming you are not looking for an increase in top speed , I imagine keeping similar overall gearing will give you better acceleration . The other option might be putting in a manual gearbox , but which one ?

One of my friends has a set of 16 inch 15 hole alloys on his W126 , not sure where they came from . I think some W140's had them as well as the slightly later 8 hole style .

 

[bigben]

Since your car is nice,why not start with this 1983 MERCEDES SL 280 SPORTS CONVERTIBLE MANUAL on eBay (end time 04-Jul-10 20:14:18 BST) .Don`t know if you would like two cars that look the same,but that`s just a thought

That car does not look half bad. Things that put me off this approach are (in no particular order):

-The Mrs would kill me if I bought another car
-My car is not as nice as it looks in the pictures which were taken a few years ago
-The 1985 facelift saw quite a few improvements to the R107 including suspension and interior so is a better starting point
-I will try to use genuine Merc panels where I have to replace them, no guarantee the owner of this car has done likewise.
-Oh and the Mrs would kill me

Then again if it stays around that price......

Ben , nice to see you over here as well !

Thought a UK forum would be more useful!

This will be an interesting project . Re Jay's comment about performance of the 500SL , while the C36 engine has a power advantage , I don't know if the V8 lump has more torque ? I'd imagine it does at the bottom end ?

That aside , you've got the C36 engine and are getting on with it . I'd think the twin cam M104 weighs a fair bit more than the single cam M103 - so you may need to uprate the front springs ?

I guess the standard diff will be OK , assuming you are not looking for an increase in top speed , I imagine keeping similar overall gearing will give you better acceleration . The other option might be putting in a manual gearbox , but which one ?

One of my friends has a set of 16 inch 15 hole alloys on his W126 , not sure where they came from . I think some W140's had them as well as the slightly later 8 hole style .

I will be replacing the springs as part of the job so can use 500 items if the car does not seem to sit right on the standard items.

I don't fancy a manual gearbox as I have a track car for that kind of driving fun!

I am trying to track down a set of 16" 15 hole alloys, they don't seem to be that common. My W140 has a similar design but with a slightly more curvy motif and I think they are 17s so would not look right.

Ben

 

[d w124]

Benlase don`t take my post as negative as i love what you`re doing,it was just a thought

 

[d w124]

I am trying to track down a set of 16" 15 hole alloys, they don't seem to be that common. My W140 has a similar design but with a slightly more curvy motif and I think they are 17s so would not look right.

Ben

Is it this ones you`re after http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/clas...des-evo-i-r129-sl-16x8-et34-alloy-wheels.html

 

[bigben]

Benlase don`t take my post as negative as i love what you`re doing,it was just a thought

Trust me it was a good thought, I really really don't know what I am doing when it comes to the bodywork bit of the job !

Is it this ones you`re after http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/class...oy-wheels.html

Note quite although they might do in a pinch! What I was hoping for was that a 16" version of the flat face alloys that are already on my car exists. I will try find a moment to take a picture this evening to show the design I mean

Ben

 

[bh13coupe]

something like this? pinched the pic from the other forum

a tad extreme with the stepped look

 

[d w124]

Paul:They are very nice but is hard to find Lorinsers with that deep dish

 

[bigben]

something like this? pinched the pic from the other forum

a tad extreme with the stepped look

Nope exactly the opposite to that

 

[bigben]

Note quite although they might do in a pinch! What I was hoping for was that a 16" version of the flat face alloys that are already on my car exists. I will try find a moment to take a picture this evening to show the design I mean

Ben

update. Those are the 16" version of the wheels I have, shows how much attention I have been paying. Will do some measuring this eve and see if they will fit.

Cheers

Ben

 

[jeremy 2516]

Hi bigben , I'm the one who has just finished putting a C36 engine into a 190 , mated to a getrag though .

Don't separate the Drive Authorisation System from the ECU for any length of time . You will also need the transponder and ignition barrel / keys for ease of installation .

Also there is a LOT of B.S. spoken about the weight of the AMG M104 engine , the truth is the C36 engine weighs 156 KGs and the M103 you are taking out weighs 170 KGs . This is from M-B themselves . ( For info an M102 16V is 169 Kg's and an M102 8V is 145 KGs ) The reason for this is the use of magnesium in the head , and the amount of "space" inside the block .

If you cannot get the engine started , like we couldn't , then I can point you towards how to do it . But as you are using an auto , it should all work .

The C36 engine is as smooth as it's smaller brother the 320 , and over 4000 revs goes like stink in any gear . The push in the back at 145mph + is very impressive !!

There is a lot of wiring that you won't need , but just get the engine going and revving properly , remember that this engine will not rev past 4000 or so whilst at rest , then you can pare back what you don't need

 

[bigben]

Hi bigben , I'm the one who has just finished putting a C36 engine into a 190 , mated to a getrag though .

Don't separate the Drive Authorisation System from the ECU for any length of time . You will also need the transponder and ignition barrel / keys for ease of installation .

Also there is a LOT of B.S. spoken about the weight of the AMG M104 engine , the truth is the C36 engine weighs 156 KGs and the M103 you are taking out weighs 170 KGs . This is from M-B themselves . ( For info an M102 16V is 169 Kg's and an M102 8V is 145 KGs ) The reason for this is the use of magnesium in the head , and the amount of "space" inside the block .

If you cannot get the engine started , like we couldn't , then I can point you towards how to do it . But as you are using an auto , it should all work .

The C36 engine is as smooth as it's smaller brother the 320 , and over 4000 revs goes like stink in any gear . The push in the back at 145mph + is very impressive !!

There is a lot of wiring that you won't need , but just get the engine going and revving properly , remember that this engine will not rev past 4000 or so whilst at rest , then you can pare back what you don't need

Good to hear from you. I have kept the DAS module, keys, ignition barrel and all the wiring between that and the engine, as well as the ECU that controls the autobox.

I will hopefully get the 36 engine physically installed this weekend (Sunday) depending on weather and hangovers then the electronics fun starts!

I note you are in North London, I would be interested to come and have a look at your car at some point if possible. I am a relatively frequent visitor to that neck of the woods.

Cheers

Ben

 

[jeremy 2516]

Hey Ben , you'd be welcome to look at my car . We used a 320 ECU and loom just to get it going , with a pick-up on the flywheel , because the C36 ECU won't work with a manual box . ( Durrh ! as we discovered !) My next stage is to install an Emerald aftermarket ECU & system to unleash all the horses , which is what I should have done at the start .

I don't know how good you are with car electrics but if you are doing it yourself , take your time , and don't be afraid to employ an auto electircian if you get stuck . Sometimes the alarm / immobilisers can do funny things when unplugged for any length of time too

My friend and mechanic did nearly all the work , and I think is on this forum , i'll let you know .

 

[bigben]

Hey Ben , you'd be welcome to look at my car . We used a 320 ECU and loom just to get it going , with a pick-up on the flywheel , because the C36 ECU won't work with a manual box . ( Durrh ! as we discovered !) My next stage is to install an Emerald aftermarket ECU & system to unleash all the horses , which is what I should have done at the start .

I don't know how good you are with car electrics but if you are doing it yourself , take your time , and don't be afraid to employ an auto electircian if you get stuck . Sometimes the alarm / immobilisers can do funny things when unplugged for any length of time too

My friend and mechanic did nearly all the work , and I think is on this forum , i'll let you know .

Cool, I will get in touch to arrange a viewing in the near future.

In the meantime I would be interested to know which electronics boxes I actually need, presumably just the ECU and the DAS module. I am keeping the C36 gearbox so that should make things simpler.

Electrics wise I should be ok as I am an electronics engineer by trade and work with a lot of other engineers who are car nuts so between us should be able to solve anything (famous last words). I have the wiring diagrams on Mercedes WIS so that should be a good starting point.

I like the look of the Emerald ECU and have considered one for my other car (a Rover K powered Ariel Atom) but not got round to it.

Cheers

Ben

 

[jeremy 2516]

We didn't use any of the C36 wiring , so I cannot be sure exactly what sensors and wiring you will need . I am sure you and your friends will have it going in no time at all .

Dave Walker is the man for Emerald , you pay a one-off fee which includes fitting and then all the fettling time on his own rolling road , however long it takes .

As you don't need a catalyst it should improve hp by 15 or so ? And it also maybe possible to get Angel to fiddle with the settings .... you should get 300 hp with little trouble .

Personally , I love M-B straight-six twin cams they are so smooth it's uncanny .

 

[bigben]

We didn't use any of the C36 wiring , so I cannot be sure exactly what sensors and wiring you will need . I am sure you and your friends will have it going in no time at all .

Dave Walker is the man for Emerald , you pay a one-off fee which includes fitting and then all the fettling time on his own rolling road , however long it takes .

As you don't need a catalyst it should improve hp by 15 or so ? And it also maybe possible to get Angel to fiddle with the settings .... you should get 300 hp with little trouble .

Personally , I love M-B straight-six twin cams they are so smooth it's uncanny .

So which wiring did you use ? From the 320 where you got the ECU ? I wish I shared your optimism that we will get it going in no time but fingers crossed!

I am going to use the exhaust from the 300SL so you are correct no Cat, although I suspect the ECU needs a lambda reading to operate correctly and may run funny maps as a consequence so I will have to at least fit this. Who is Angel ?

Yep this is the third MB straight-six I have owned, an M110, and M103 and now the M104 all have been super smooth engines.

Ben

 

[momomo]

Angel

 

[bigben]

Post weekend update.

Started to prepare the 300SL for engine removal. Amazed that those cars ever even started, a huge number of wires and vacuume pipes running the fuel injection system......

Anyway got most of it disconnected and ready for removal the next free day I get.

Ben

 

[jeremy 2516]

I think that the only advice I can offer you ( Forgive me if it sounds like I am trying to teach my gran to suck eggs ) is to lay the new loom on top of the old one then start to undo the old one , one connection at a time , connecting the new one as you go .

My wiring came from an MOT failure that came into the garage , but had an almost new loom on it , I got the ECU from Neil Ryan , I think .

 

[bigben]

I think that the only advice I can offer you ( Forgive me if it sounds like I am trying to teach my gran to suck eggs ) is to lay the new loom on top of the old one then start to undo the old one , one connection at a time , connecting the new one as you go .

My wiring came from an MOT failure that came into the garage , but had an almost new loom on it , I got the ECU from Neil Ryan , I think .

Sadly not going to help in this case as the 300SL loom has nothing in common with the C36 as they are based on different injection systems (CIS vs EFI iirc)

The only other car I have done a loom swap on was designed such that the loom would only fit in one way, hopefully the C36 will be the same....

Ben