Car depreciation rates worsening

[rf065]

Dont do it....

I've just spent 3 months agonising over this exact decision. The upshot of a whole load of research is that the freelander is a truly awful car with many problems indeed, especially the Rover engined 1.8's but including the TD4's (hence the cheap prices).

Get a honda CR-V instead.

1001 car reliability tables cannot be wrong
Land Rover usually in bottom three

Russ

 

[Ade B]

There's some rubbish in this thread.

That is *not* a before tax price.

Here's a 1989 car for sale in Singapore:
http://www.sgcarmart.com/main/info-20ici65D-1131.html

Last time I was in Batam and Bintan - Indonesian islands just off singapore, I was discussing with my brother in law why there were so many decent cars about - they all come from singapore when they are sold off due to the set up there.

Its something to do with the COE, I don't fully understand the facts but they mean that there are not many old smokers chugging around there (unlike indonesia ...)


Ade

 

[Ade B]

I work at a brand new state of the art research facility at a University in which there is a server room. This server room has no ventilation of any kind and relies on AirCon for cooling. What I find staggering (and frankly almost bordering on criminal) is that we have 40kW of heat being generated which requires 40kW of cooling - total 80kW. There is no heat transfer of any kind to the rest of the building and so this is just largely wasted energy. No wonder we find it so hard to buy into this unilateral energy consumption reduction .

Had the university used a decent Services consultant during the design phase, this wouldn't have happened. The good ones advise on how to reduce the amount of services in the building and the best way to utilise the incidental heat gains to reduce power bills if nothing else. I'd say the building is not state of the art....


Ade

 

[Ade B]

More on Singapore COE here

and we think Ken is bad


Ade

 

[dowtherz]

Dont do it....

I've just spent 3 months agonising over this exact decision. The upshot of a whole load of research is that the freelander is a truly awful car with many problems indeed, especially the Rover engined 1.8's but including the TD4's (hence the cheap prices).

Get a honda CR-V instead.

It's the new model, heard lots of bad things about the old one but only good about the FL2.

 

[rf065]

It's the new model, heard lots of bad things about the old one but only good about the FL2.

If it's what you want, don't let us put you off, but what have Land Rover done with the new model that will make it so reliable? And why did they not do it before with other models? I've a feeling this one will be in the bottom three of all the surveys within the next couple of years too.
Only my opinion of course, but it's your money, your choice.

Russ

 

[hawk20]

..and that, of course, is utter rubbish.

And as for the C Class being 86% at 1 yr - I bought mine at 5mths old and it was under 2/3 of its new price. And that what I paid, not what the seller got for it.

I think you are unfair here.

Family cars like Fords, Vauxhall, Citroen and Peugeot do indeed lose value incredibly rapidly and are often only worth 30% or less of list price by the time they are 3 years old. What Car gives figures for a huge range of cars that show this to be so. And you can check in Glass's Guide via the Vauxhall site.

By contrast Executive cars as thay are usually called like BMW's, Mercs, Audis often have a residual after 3 years of 50% or so provided you take the more popular engine sizes.

And the figure they give for the C class is correct. It related to the new model which has high values at the moment. I assume you bought one of the old model for 2/3 of the new price. Old models nearly always drop.

 

[Dryce]

Family cars like Fords, Vauxhall, Citroen and Peugeot do indeed lose value incredibly rapidly and are often only worth 30% or less of list price by the time they are 3 years old. What Car gives figures for a huge range of cars that show this to be so. And you can check in Glass's Guide via the Vauxhall site.

Actual depreciation or list price depreciation?

Discounting off the list price on cars like the Focus and Astra is rife. Then there are preregs. 30% of the original list might actually represent 40% to 45% of what was actually paid by many customers.

 

[hawk20]

Actual depreciation or list price depreciation?

Discounting off the list price on cars like the Focus and Astra is rife. Then there are preregs. 30% of the original list might actually represent 40% to 45% of what was actually paid by many customers.

It is very hard to pin down fair and accurate figures. It all depends where you are in the year (great deals in november/december) and in the model cycle. Not just Fords with discounts. Mercedes have been offering brand new SL's at £15,000 off list price as the facelift was awaited. And when the new CL came out there were dealers offering £25k off list for cars with 1k miles on the clock.

When I bought the A class, I very nearly bought the BMW 5 series (520d), as I was offered by a main BMW dealer £5,000 off the 31k list price of the model and spec I wanted. But the heavily offset driving position put me off and I wasn't sure I could live with the looks.

BTW discounts on the E class have been rife too with free engine upgrades and free auto options at various times.

What you can say is that most Fords and Vauxhalls have a 30% residual after 3 years and you can then compare that with whatever deal you can get when buying.

Similarly, most Mercs and BMW's (but not all and not big petrol engined ones) are worth about 50% of list price when 3 years old.

 

[glojo]

I think you are unfair here..

I think some folks lash out as soon as they are presented with facts.

Regards
John

 

[Rory]

I think some folks lash out as soon as they are presented with facts.

Regards
John

They're not facts though - the article that Hawk20 quotes with no qualification is utter rubbish.

Now he has accepted that many volume cars are heavily discounted then it presents a more balanced picture.

The C Class is comparison it totally misleading - the article doesn't say it refers to the current model, are there any year old C Class's around? Even if it is correct, the high initial residual is a very short lived thing.


Hawk20: What GMFV did you get on your A Class? I think that's the true test of the residual. MB will set that high as they dare to make the monthly cost look low. There are plenty of stories of people handing back E Class at 3yrs as the p/x value was less than the GMFV.

 

[hawk20]

They're not facts though - the article that Hawk20 quotes with no qualification is utter rubbish.

Now he has accepted that many volume cars are heavily discounted then it presents a more balanced picture.

The C Class is comparison it totally misleading - the article doesn't say it refers to the current model, are there any year old C Class's around? Even if it is correct, the high initial residual is a very short lived thing.


Hawk20: What GMFV did you get on your A Class? I think that's the true test of the residual. MB will set that high as they dare to make the monthly cost look low. There are plenty of stories of people handing back E Class at 3yrs as the p/x value was less than the GMFV.

I don't know what has got into you, Rory. Not your normal style so I shall overlook it.

This is not my thread . But an interesting one on depreciation , a matter of major concern to most. I merely added the view of Alliance and Leicester because I thought members might like to consider it from a major lender on cars.

You may say it is rubbish (you seem to use that word a lot lately), but it is actually well founded. They are saying that the 'normal' family brands of Ford, Peugeot, Citroen, Vauxhall etc have low residuals affer 3 years and hence high depreciation from list. You can check this in Glass's Guide (free if you go to Vauxhall's site) as I have and I found them to be correct -IN GENERAL.
They also say that German makes typically have lower depreciation, compact executives etc. You may not like that but it is in general true.

In fact, most car mags now warn readers about how large the depreciation is on the most popular makes. Perhaps they are all wrong too.

 

[hawk20]

Hawk20: What GMFV did you get on your A Class? I think that's the true test of the residual. MB will set that high as they dare to make the monthly cost look low. There are plenty of stories of people handing back E Class at 3yrs as the p/x value was less than the GMFV.

The moment a facelift comes out residuals usually get hit. New models have an even bigger effect. So even cars which typically achieve a 50% residual at three years old, will fall from this quite dramatically when facelifts or new models arrive. One of the biggest reasons is the car-maker cannot resist dumping surplus production instead of restricting supply to what can comfortably sell. (see my earlier posting on the new CL etc).

Now the A class. Here are the figures straight from the MB website today:- (under current offers)
The 150 petrol Classic SE 5 door is £15,282 on the road. They give a discount of £1304 (called "retailer contribution" but actually comes from MB) making the discounted price £13,978.

The Guaranteed future value after 3 years is £6,750, which is 48.3% of the discounted price. Excellent value IMO. And the APR is very low at under 6%.

BTW it is easy to get an extra discount from the dealer, on top of the one quoted. The effect of this is that you can easily get a guaranteed residual of over 50% of the actual discounted purchase price as I did. And in these uncertain times, with technology and taxation changing so rapidly, I thought that a sensible option to grab.

 

[Rory]

BTW it is easy to get an extra discount from the dealer, on top of the one quoted. The effect of this is that you can easily get a guaranteed residual of over 50% of the actual discounted purchase price as I did.

Thank you! That makes my point perfectly. Mondeo has a 50% residual if you buy it at the right price in the first place.

 

[hawk20]

Thank you! That makes my point perfectly. Mondeo has a 50% residual if you buy it at the right price in the first place.

Oh dear. To get a 50% residual on a Mondeo PCP -just as you can get one on a Mercedes- you would need to find a dealer who will sell you a brand new one (just as the Mercedes I quoted is brand new and not pre-reg etc) for 60% of the new price.

Then and only then Rory would a 30% residual after 3 years like most Fords have give the buyer a 50% residual as a percent of the price actually paid. So find me a dealer giving 40% off Mondeos on a PCP deal, at a competitive APR like the Mercedes, brand new, not pre-reg and then I will agree you are correct.

 

[hawk20]

By the way on your logic, everything has a 50% residual if you buy at the right price!

 

[jrggino]

Svo

pleased i sold the 7 Series when i did!

Hi I have a 1999 e300td salon can you advise me on running on svo please your exsperiance

Gino

Sussex

 

[Rory]

By the way on your logic, everything has a 50% residual if you buy at the right price!

Obviously

but the real issue (for MB owners) is that as MB apply hefty discounts then the residuals can only go down (compared to list price). Then the only way to make them look better is to drop the list pricing to more realistic levels - there's no sign that's likely to happen.

 

[01goodwina]

i remember when i got an escort for £25 played in it for a few weeks then got bord of it... painted all the windows for some reason, ook everhting of any used off it including the ABS unit and speedo and other clocks...

still sold it for scrap for £30, all these parts and still got a profit.

 

[6CylinderMerc]

You guys that are debating & comparing car prices in Singapore versus prices in the UK should be aware that the whole comparison is flawed in any case.


Singapore taxes are deliberately set high by their govt for one reason. To discourage people from buying cars & to use public transport instead. As an ex-Singapore resident & having been back recently, I can explain. The underground train system in Singapore (MRT - short for Mass Rapid Transport) is second to none in the world. It is also very cheap to additionally encourage people to use it - Changi Airport to downtown is around 45p for a 25 minute ride & the maximum fare to anywhere is around 65p. You can get virtually anywhere on the island using it & there are plentiful & cheap buses in addition to this.

Another unfair comparison is the size of the island compared to the population, i.e. density of citizens. Singapore measures roughly 26 miles long by 14 miles wide, has only 120 miles of coastline & a total of less than 2000 miles of road, yet has a population in excess of 4.5m. If cars were subject to minimal taxation then a larger proprtion of the population would own one resulting in utter chaos & gridlock all day, every day. That is the primary reason they are taxed so heavily & the laws governing them are stricter.

It is also a little known fact that Singapore started congestion charging way back in 1977. In those days it was restricted to the city centre. Basically if your number plate ended in an even number, you could enter the city free on Mon, Wed & Fri or pay a fee to enter the city on Tue & Thur. Weekends were exempt & the odd / even number configuration changed every week. The govt, knowing that they had to do something to get people out of their cars on such a small landmass, started to increase taxes & place restrictions on owning them to the degree that we see today. The rationale is simple - If it becomes too expensive & you provide a good enough alternative, most people won't bother to own a car.

However, it wouldn't work in the UK. We don't have a good, efficient, comprehensive or cheap enough public transport sytem & our island is simply too big. Added to which, if we all ditched our cars then where would the revenue from fuel tax, road tax, VAT on new cars, speeding fines, congestion charge, etc, etc, come from? . Darling & Brown would be bankrupt within a month

In the UK, the govt is not serious about reducing emissions or congestion. They are however serious about increasing taxes as can be illustrated by the recent road tax hike & the ridiculous tax on wine under the guise of eliminating the yob booze culture. . When I get robbed I usually like the person robbing me to wear a mask & not wear a suit going by the name of Darling.

Guess we'll all have to get used to not seeing gangs of youths on the streets tanked up on bottles of a delicate little Merlot.