Cashless society?

[Trickythemerc]

I have a twenty pound note in my wallet that has been there since the start of the first lockdown. I also have cash bags with pound coins etc in all my vehicles, sort of petty cash idea. Last week I noticed a soft tyre on one of the vans while filling up with diesel, went to the air line and even that wanted a contactless card for the £1.00 that air now costs. Last time I used one it was 20p

 

[baxlin]

The last time I had the car serviced by my regular indie, he asked if I minded transferring the funds direct to their bank, as card charges were becoming a large part of their overheads. I appreciate he got his money sooner, which might also have had a bearing, of course!

No problem for me to do this because the card’s paid off every month (apart from losing loyalty points, ha ha), but I wonder how much the card transaction fee for a 90p newspaper is to the newsagent, and if/how 5bis might change with so many tiny transactions.

 

[esox]

I`ve had a £10 note in my wallet that must of been there for the last 6 months!
This is partly due to the `thing` over the last year and shops insisting on card payments, i don`t mind paying for items with card exclusively but it does seem strange with minor items of a quid or so.
...and i don`t miss having a pot of change in the kitched cupboard to bother with..

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

As soon as my favourite Chinese Takeaway starts accepting card payments then I won’t have a need for cash except for tips.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

As soon as my favourite Chinese Takeaway starts accepting card payments then I won’t have a need for cash except for tips.

Two points there.

The problem for small businesses accepting card payments is that the merchant charges become a significant drain on profits. Small turnover businesses don’t have the benefit of being able to get lower percentage fees from the card providers.

Tips - when paying by card how do you ensure that the person within the company who provided the service that justified a tip will actually receive it? The helpful waitress in the restaurant, the bell boy at the hotel. Will they have to carry around their personal card machines in future, or just go without tips?

 

[Deleted member 113659]

.....I also have cash bags with pound coins etc in all my vehicles................I noticed soft tyres on one of the vans.......

 

[190]

The problem for small businesses accepting card payments is that the merchant charges become a significant drain on profits. Small turnover businesses don’t have the benefit of being able to get lower percentage fees from the card providers.

Small business can be hit which ever way they accept payment. Banks can charge £1 for every £100 a business pays their account. Banks don't really want to handle cash and have already started increasing these charges. Both banks in our village have closed, By the time a local business has bagged up coins and travelled miles to the nearest branch, which are ever decreasing in number, they might be better off doing business cashless. What they need is fair charges for cashless payments

 

[raspy]

@ToeKnee Yes, I think we will move to cashless sooner (at least for certain groups of the population) - The only time I use cash is when I get my 1 pound coin for the Sainsbury's trolley. I pretty much gravitate to those places where I can use my Apple watch to pay for stuff, and avoid places where they only take cash.

However, I can see that the shift is already proving to have a negative impact for those of us who can't use a smartphone or can't afford one. For example, the move from parking machines where cash is no longer accepted and you have to use an app on your phone to pay. I read that in certain parts of the country, it's led to older drivers who only use cash and don't have modern tech to feel more isolated as they avoid visiting the places they used to.

I think we need a healthy balance that enables everyone to live their lives, rather than make life easy for some of us.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Tips - when paying by card how do you ensure that the person within the company who provided the service that justified a tip will actually receive it? The helpful waitress in the restaurant, the bell boy at the hotel. Will they have to carry around their personal card machines in future, or just go without tips?

I continue to give cash tips but most establishments have a policy opooling tips so they often don’t actually get the tip I give them anyway, and so I could have added the tip to the bill.

However those working in industries which receive tips usually prefer cash, because they pay tax on tips paid by cars on top of the bill, which suggests that they don’t declare some or all of their tips to HMRC.

The technology to quickly make a personal (non-business related ) electronic payment already exists, and could be improved further I’m sure, without too much difficulty.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Small business can be hit which ever way they accept payment. Banks can charge £1 for every £100 a business pays their account. Banks don't really want to handle cash and have already started increasing these charges. Both banks in our village have closed, By the time a local business has bagged up coins and travelled miles to the nearest branch, which are ever decreasing in number, they might be better off doing business cashless. What they need is fair charges for cashless payments

In the 13 years that my wife has run her small business here, she’s probably only banked cash an average of 2 or 3 times a year, and never been charged a penny. Usually the cash that she holds onto is used for purchasing stock or most things she wants for personal use. She’s never incurred charges for depositing cheques. The right bank is needed according to the specific business.

 

[MadMerx]

Tonight's chinese was sorry cash only, machine not working again. No problem, here you go, keep the change.

 

[Deleted member 113659]

Tonight's chinese was sorry cash only, machine not working again. No problem, here you go, keep the change.

Indeed. Our local Chinese boasts a mahoooosive ’cash only’ sign in the window. Almost like a great big finger pointing down for the inland revenue to see.

 

[E55BOF]

Cash in the sticks, cashless in the cities, is the way it will go (even more - it already is going...), but fully cashless in fifteen years? I doubt it.

 

[m80]

Frank joined us at Spoons earlier.
Cool, well 4 C, as we haven't seen him for a bad few months.

struggled to get Spoons app to menus ,but got there. Come payment I wanted a drink so took over. It'll work out over time and he will compensate the occasional 7 drinks.

Cashless doesn't work for all. The poor bugger needs to pay the extra 20% now.
And he only drinks the cheap stuff.

 

[w124nut]

I have a purse of silver coins {£13 approx} in the car for parking fees. but normally I pay these by card or phone.

The window cleaner, valeters, for example get paid via faster payments system and others receive payment via my credit/debit card.

When paying cheques to my bank account, I photograph the cheques and post them to my account using my smart phone.

Any bronze coin that I may receive go straight into a charity box.

I know that me and many others are responsible for the closure of bank branches of which I do have some guilt but times are changing.

 

[Will]

I reckon you could easily merge this thread with one of the EV vs. Combustion engine ones from MBClub

And bring back typewriters, coal fires and slates for schools

 

[baxlin]

And bring back typewriters, coal fires and slates for schools

I believe that what has replaced typewriters, coal fires and slates for schools have been advantageous, the same cannot be said about entirely replacing cash.

And no, I am not a cash Luddite, I am very much like w124nut in post #35 above.

 

[Trickythemerc]

My local pub operates on cash only.

 

[Future]

We're at an interesting point in the future of currency and what money will become. Keep in mind I'm thinking pretty big picture, long-term stuff.

Governments of the world (along with Wall St investors like Warren Buffet) hoped Bitcoin was a fad that'd just go out of fashion and die off but instead the exact opposite has happened. Even if you aren't especially into technology or cryptocurrency, everyone these days knows what Bitcoin is and the value is frankly absurd. And a huge ecosystem of "altcoins" has sprung up to utilise the blockchain in various new ways.

There are already anonymous cryptocurrencies, the biggest being Monero, which unlike most other cryptos does not have a public ledger that shows you "this wallet sent this much to this wallet." I believe once we do go "cashless" either Monero or something else like it will take its place. For real world transactions it's very easy to use. Just scan a QR code on your mate's phone, type in how much you want to send, and boom.

The volatility of crypto can be avoided with stablecoins, which are typically pegged to national currencies. For instance Tether is pegged to the USD and is always worth exactly $1. From a technological perspective, since Tether is just a token that runs on other blockchains, there's nothing stopping someone from putting Tether tokens on a Monero-style privacy-focused blockchain platform, which I am sure already exists or is in development somewhere, probably by multiple competing teams.

The Bank of England sees the inevitability of cryptocurrency shaping the future of money if they don't compete. But perhaps more importantly, they're also worried that if everyone only ever uses contactless payments, direct debits, and bank transfers, they're actually using private bank issued money rather than BoE issued money.

The BoE doesn't want to concede control of the monetary supply to either crypto or banks. So they are going to create a CBDC. They don't really have a choice and Jon Cunliffe, deputy governor of the BoE, has only made his position on this stronger over the years. For the same reason, they are also dedicated to keeping good old physical cash flowing.

UK will likely need to issue a digital currency, says BoE deputy governor

Bank of England Deputy Governor Jon Cunliffe has said a CBDC could be crucial to ensuring financial stability if non-state actors begin to issue digital currency.

cointelegraph.com

I'm very curious as to exactly how a BoE issued CBDC would actually work. Certainly very differently to a decentralised cryptocurrency I'm sure. But in entering the digital currency space they are competing with decentralised cryptocurrencies which have their own benefits over state backed currency.

So I reckon the real battle in the future will not be contactless vs cash but rather state backed, central bank controlled currency vs decentralised currency once everything is digital, however long that takes.

This only really scratches the surface, because blockchain technology is already being used for a lot more than simply moving cryptos from one place to another and this trend will only continue. I believe when people have the choice between a CBDC and decentralised finance (DeFi), some will choose one and some will choose the other, but either way the ones to hurt will be banks. And Jon Cunliffe has stated in no uncertain terms the BoE is not going to protect the banks if they fail to move with the times:

BoE's Cunliffe: Not our job to protect banks against digital currencies

Bank of England Deputy Governor Jon Cunliffe said it was not his job to protect banks from the impact of future digital currencies, which could dramatically reduce households' willingness to hold money in traditional bank accounts.

www.reuters.com

Very interesting times ahead.

Anyway, this isn't a crypto thread so I'll shut up now. Ultimately I do reckon we'll eventually go cashless (not in 15 years though) but once we do, we'll see a "battle" between central bank digital currency and cryptocurrency. When all currency becomes digital, central banks are suddenly in direct competition with crypto. And frankly crypto's had a big head start and will innovate much more rapidly than any central bank.

For what it's worth I bought £300 of Ethereum a few years ago which is suddenly worth over £10k. I've reinvested that primarily into Cardano which I believe will usurp Ethereum as the next dominant DApp platform.

 

[MrGreedy]

Some people like to keep a bit of cash hidden at home if in abusive or domestic violence situations. Kind of the monetary equivalent of a prepper's 'go-bag'. Keeping it online as part of normal electronic banking when control of money and privacy is an issue in the relationship means potential victims might find it more difficult to sequester the means to make a dash if needed.
Not something that most people have to worry about, but very useful and/or reassuring of the options it gives for a few.