Coincidence or something I’ve done - electrics playing up

[GrandEd]

Hi Forum - First post from me.

I’ve a W219 Cd350 ‘Grand Edition’ - well cared for and definitely not a problem car.

Recently had some driver window gremlins; window runs smooth / no grinding but as it travels downward, it drops unevenly, causing it to hit the B-Pillar on way down. I’ve had the door card off and adjusted fixings / nipped everything up but that’s not fixed it. My plan was to next check to see if a ‘stop’ on the cable had moved out of position (if there is such a thing). Meantime, I’ve been using the convenience locking to get in and out as the greater distance of window travel allows it time to straighten / align.

I’ve used the car four / five times since an now the big red battery warning light is on and electrics are playing up. I’ve had the door card off again and checked everything is connected correctly and visually inspected for breaks / shorts - all looks perfect.

The main ‘starting’ battery starts car fine. The indicators, haz-lights, alarm (by key fob), boot release (by door button), fuel gauge and drivers door mirror adjust, window ‘1/2” drop’, have all stopped working. The central locking from dashboard button and convenience locking still works but no longer sets the alarm and I’m not sure I trust the internal courtesy lights now either. I scanned the OBD with an ‘Icarsoft i980’ and got lots more than I expected -

DCM-FR Door Control Module
9206 output of E17/4 right front door entry/exit lamp has short circuited or open circuit.
920B discontinuity to component E6/6 (right exterior mirror turn signal lamp) or defective.
9211 discontinuity to component m21/2r1 (mirror heater) or component defective.
950A no signal from component S20/1 (drivers power window switch group) on switching bus.
950C no signal from component S50/1 outside rear view mirror switch with/without fold in/out feature on switching bus.
OCP-Overhead Control Panel
90E8 Communication with control unit DCM-FR sporadically disturbed.
90E2 Communication with control unit REAR SAM sporadically disturbed.
UPC-Upper Control Panel
9024 Fault in CAN communications with control unit N10/2(REAR SAM with fuse and rely module)
IC-Instrument Cluster
9112 Fault in CAN communications with control unit REAR SAM.
9123 Fault in CAN communications with control unit Vehicle Power Supply Control Module.
SCM-Steering Column Module
9354 Fault in CAN communications with control unit REAR SAM.
SDS-System Diagnosis
903E-Synchronisation of DTC memory cannot be ensured.
ABR-Adaptive Brake
42A4-The supply voltage of component solenoid valve is to low (under-voltage).
5487-HOLD function: One or more signals transmitted by control unit A1 (instrument cluster) or N93 (central gateway control module) via CAN bus are implausible.
5485-HOLD function: CAN Signal ‘Battery Voltage’ from control unit N10/2 (Rear SAM control module with fuse/relay module) implausible.
C AAC-Convenience Auto Air Control
9622-Fault in CAN communications with control unit Rear Signal Acquisition and Actuation Module.
Drivers Side SAM
9052 wiper motor M6/1 is blocked.
9098 fault in CAN Communication with control unit REAR SAM.
909A fault in CAN Communication with control unit BCM.
Pass Side SAM
9098 control unit n10/2 rear SAM not transmitting data CANBUS.
909A control unit BCM not transmitting data CANBUS.
Rear SAM
Fault in communication ECU.

So many codes !

Wondering if I should be looking at Aux battery - I think it’s the original.
Wondering have I ‘blown’ something when I was working on the drivers door.
Wondering about rear SAM; it comes up quite often - when I tried to select it for a manual scan, it looked like the ‘i980’ couldn’t connect with it.

I’d be very grateful if someone could give me a steer where to start fault tracing this.

Thanks in advance,

Ed

 

[DSM10000]

Ed.

Welcome.

Have you tried clearing the codes then scanning again with a charged battery?

Do you know how old the battery is? There should be a date stamp on the top by one of the terminals.

Also, have you checked the voltage at the battery when the engine is running?

I am unsure if your vehicle has an auxiliary battery. It is based on the W211 chassis and that model didn't have an auxiliary battery after the facelift.

 

[GrandEd]

Hi there ‘DSM’ and thanks for the welcome.

Charging the battery is on my list - I’ve just fitted a plug-in type charging lead so I can maintain it over winter.
Not charged yet as wasn’t sure if it was an AGM; I’ve asked VARTA twice with no reply.
It says it’s a Valve Regulated Lead Acid - but not sure if AGM (my charger has this setting)
I’ve included a pic of battery - do you think it’s an AGM ?
It could be the original battery - I’ll check for date stamps tomorrow.

I haven’t directly checked voltage when running but one of the OBD data streams (can’t recall which) did show a voltage >14V.

Maybe I was incorrect about the Aux Battery - I assumed there was one under plastic bulkhead cover but not had them all off yet.

Best Ed

 

[markjay]

AGM batteries will usually say 'AGM'. E.g.:

And AGM was generally introduced with Start/Stop around 2010, so your C219 is unlikely to have it.

 

[GrandEd]

Thank you Markjay for clarification on AGM question.
Best Ed

 

[DSM10000]

The battery in the picture is a standard Lead acid type.

You can replace it with any equivalent. An AGM battery still uses Lead acid chemistry, the diffeence is the form of the electrolyte.

If it is the original (or over 5 years old) then it is ready for replacement.

 

[John]

Hi there ‘DSM’ and thanks for the welcome.

Charging the battery is on my list - I’ve just fitted a plug-in type charging lead so I can maintain it over winter.
Not charged yet as wasn’t sure if it was an AGM; I’ve asked VARTA twice with no reply.
It says it’s a Valve Regulated Lead Acid - but not sure if AGM (my charger has this setting)
I’ve included a pic of battery - do you think it’s an AGM ?
It could be the original battery - I’ll check for date stamps tomorrow.

I haven’t directly checked voltage when running but one of the OBD data streams (can’t recall which) did show a voltage >14V.

Maybe I was incorrect about the Aux Battery - I assumed there was one under plastic bulkhead cover but not had them all off yet.

Best Ed

I may be wrong here but your battery appears to have a date code of week 47 of 2009 stamped on the negative terminal.

Not a bad innings if so.

 

[markjay]

I may be wrong here but your battery appears to have a date code of week 47 of 2009 stamped on the negative terminal.

Not a bad innings if so.

I sold my W203 at 11 years old with the original MB-branded Varta battery still going strong. My W204 was sold at 9 years old, again with the original MB/Varta battery, and ECO stop/start still working. There are exceptions, obviously, but in general it seems that these MB/Varta batteries can last a very long time. I just wonder if the Varta and Bosch batteries manufactured as after-market replacement parts are of the same quality as those they make for MB? On second thought, it probably doesn't matter because if you buy a new replacement battery with 3 or 5 years warranty, it will last through your ownership of the car, so not sure if it makes sense to by a genuine MB battery (i.e. manufactured for MB by Varta) even if it was true that they last longer - most people won't need a battery that will be good for another 10+ years on a second hand car anyway.

 

[GrandEd]

Thanks all for taking time to post / comment.
‘John’ has good eyesight; you are quite correct 47/09.
I gave the terminal a clean and it’s clearly marked - I never knew to look for a date stamp like that.
And that is indeed, a good innings - that’s the original battery.

I’ve ordered a new multi-meter and until it arrives the only voltage I’ve seen is a >14v on a data stream via scanner.
The battery has achieved ‘senior citizen’ status but still sounds lively on cranking and starting.
………….is the consensus that my numerous (out of the blue) problems / fault codes, are probably due to an expired starter-battery ?

Best Ed

 

[markjay]

Firstly, while replacing a 13 years battery is never a bad idea, the issues you experienced may or may not have been caused by low voltage, so keeping an open mind will be a good idea....

Then, with the engine running you're measuring the voltage as generated by the alternator and regulated by the alternator's voltage regulator. This should be in the region of 14.3v-14.7v (apart for AGM batteries where the alternator will charge the last 20% at 13.3v). The battery's voltage with the engine switched off should be 12.7v for a fully charged battery, and you should be able to read this from the instrument cluster menu via a sequence, e.g.:

Mercedes-Benz Check Battery Voltage On Cluster - YOUCANIC

We hope you find the Mercedes-Benz Check Battery Voltage on Cluster guide helpful. Check these troubleshooting and repair guides for more help on your

www.youcanic.com

 

[GrandEd]

Whilst I eagerly await my new multi-meter, I thought I’d check on the Aux Battery situation.
I removed the plastic tray on passenger side and then the cabin air intake filter box.
No Aux Battery - but I did find my ‘BRABUS ECO Power Extra’ I wondered where they’d tucked that away.

 

[GrandEd]

Still no sign the multi-meter so I was going to give ‘mark jay’s’ link a try; using the built in voltage display via service menu/binnacle.
Couldn’t get in the car; the convenience unlocking mode packed up, so maybe the battery has totally expired (in fear of a performance test).
I could have used the emergency key, the glass kinda peels out of the seal even tho it hasn’t popped down.
If I open it and I’ve got flat battery - is there a knack to closing door with window stuck fully up.
Thanks Ed

 

[GrandEd]

Hi All - thanks for pointers and advice.
I’m going to have to assume my battery given out altogether (given OEM age and symptoms).

Can I ask for some battery advice please:

1.)Recommended replacement battery (2009 CLS 350 CDI Grand Edition)
When I check on-line (based on Reg number) the options all seem to be AGM, like this one
Bosch S5A13 AGM Car Battery: Type 019
Am I wasting money as the OEM wasn’t AGM and I’ve no ‘stop/start’.
(And is the alternator charging cycle different for an AGM; am I OK to fit AGM)

2.)Meantime (whilst I await new battery)
Is it worth attempting to re-charge / recover the OEM battery (even to just get back in the car !).
I’ve got a 10AMP Noco Genius10 charger; (never used this mode) it has a repair cycle for recovering stratified / sulfated batteries.
Worth a go ?

3.)When I change out the battery / remove battery from car altogether
If I try the ‘repair’ cycle - I’d sooner have the battery out of the car, I don’t know how brutal the cycle might be and I don’t want to fry ECU etc. Ditto, when I change out to new replacement battery, there’ll be a short change-over with no battery connected; are there any things to watch out for like lost security codes or recognising the new replacement battery.


Thanks again Ed

 

[DSM10000]

1/The AGM question was answered in post 6.

2/You have nothing to lose by trying to recharge the fitted battery.

3/ As long as the fitted battery is fully disconnected from the vehicle battery cables you can try to charge it in the car. That's your choice.

When removing it there may be a hold down clamp and possibly a hinged bracket around the battery.

There should not be any codes to reset but you will need to have the electric windows and, if fitted, the sunroof relearn their auto open and close positions.

You do this by running them all the way open and closed via each ones switch.

 

[GrandEd]

Thank you DSM, as you say - nothing to lose
I did read your post 6 but I wasn’t 100% sure
…… ‘You can replace it with any equivalent’ - you mean I shouldn’t really replace it with an AGM because it’s not equivalent ?

Best Ed

 

[DSM10000]

Thank you DSM, as you say - nothing to lose
I did read your post 6 but I wasn’t 100% sure
…… ‘You can replace it with any equivalent’ - you mean I shouldn’t really replace it with an AGM because it’s not equivalent ?

Best Ed

No.

It is equivalent if the CCA and rated Ah is the same and if it is physically the same size.

The chemistry is exactly the same, AGM are still Pb /acid technology.

The only difference is how the Electrolyte is held inside.


My original was a standard Pb/acid type, the replacement is a Bosch S5 AGM

 

[Stratman]

Although liquid electrolyte and AGM batteries are both lead/sulphuric acid devices, can they be truly interchangeable considering smart chargers like CTek have separate charging programmes for the differing types? Will a car which was not built with an AGM battery be able to optimally charge it?

Edited to add MX5 specs.

This shows AGM batteries are charged with a higher voltage (14.7 not 14.4). Can a non AGM car do this? Does it matter?

 

[DSM10000]

Although liquid electrolyte and AGM batteries are both lead/sulphuric acid devices, can they be truly interchangeable considering smart chargers like CTek have separate charging programmes for the differing types? Will a car which was not built with an AGM battery be able to optimally charge it?

They do require a different external charger to achieve a full charge. Some conventional Ob/acid batteries also require charging at certain rates hence smart chargers that can detect this and change accordingly.

When in the car the alternator will charge it as normal.

I fitted an AGM to the E 320 a few weeks ago. After a run it is showing 100% charge and its CCA figures are over 1000 amps.

 

[GrandEd]

Hello again.
I thought I’d share this in case someone else finds it useful.
I popped into MB parts today; thought I’d give them my chassis number and price up battery.
Walked out with the ‘direct replacement for my original OEM VARTA A005 5411001’ (12V 95Ah 850Aen).
£148 for another VARTA - clearly labelled an AGM so didn’t seem bad price.
(Not fitted it yet)

Ed

 

[GrandEd]

Hello all, I just thought I should close off the thread I started.
I fitted my new AGM battery this weekend and (fingers crossed) it seems to have sorted my multiple issues.
I’ll keep an eye on it for parasitic drain / alternator symptoms but on face of it, I think the 2009 OEM battery was cause.
Once again - thanks for contributions and help.

Best Ed