Compression Test Results - What does it show?

[stuu]

Haven't bought gaskets from ECP before but they should be ok. Worth checking the price of an MB set though, might not be as expensive as you think.

That kit is a complete set for a head gasket swap (HG + intake/exhaust manifold gaskets and seals for temp sensors etc), but it does not include the valve stem seals or cam cover gasket.

You can measure the head bolts to see if they need replacing, there is data on WIS that specifies the maximum stretch length.

Will

ECP sell the seals as well, £12 each, I'm assuming I'll need 8 of them?

Is there another name for the cam cover gasket? I seen a part 'Rocker cover gasket'

What about the piston rings, do they normally need changed?

Cheers for all the help!

 

[Will]

ECP sell the seals as well, £12 each, I'm assuming I'll need 8 of them?

Is there another name for the cam cover gasket? I seen a part 'Rocker cover gasket'

What about the piston rings, do they normally need changed?

Cheers for all the help!

Cam cover gasket/rocker cover gasket = same thing

£12 will be for a complete set of stem seals, they won't be £12 each!

Piston rings are a totally different ball game - you're talking of a bottom end overhaul. MB bottom ends are usually very tough, if you've got problems here you might as well just get another engine IMHO.

Will

 

[Bellow]

If you are having to pay £12 each for stem seals, then definitely check MB price for complete head gasket set. MB prices can be, not always, but can be, lower than expected, and genuine MB is a selling point if you decide to sell. Stem seals never used to cost £12 each - one tenth of that is what I expected.

Gutsing through oil is not a good sign. The rings I refer to are piston rings, hence a much bigger engine out job, where you will then be faced with difficult choices regarding rebore, crankshaft work, etc. At this point most would consider sourcing a decent secondhand engine. The 'wet' test described earlier should give an indication of ring wear as can a smell of petrol in the oil, probably at it's worst after cold start up - have a sniff with the filler cap removed. Even that isn't conclusive as HG could leak into oilways.

However a point to consider here is why the engine is suffering this type of wear (expect bore wear also - rebore and pistons required) at a low for that engine mileage. Has it been running without an air filter? If so, that could account for the bore/ring wear. Probably not though, in which case the bottom end might be a mess. How is the oil pressure?

If it's burning oil as you say, it may fail MOT. All of which is leading to a big decision. Rebuild this engine, source another, sell the car.

My advice here is go back to the start of this thread, re-read, conduct all the suggested tests, and when a diagnosis emerges, make your decision then.

On the plus side, that engine is a common fitment and probably a unit from a rusty W123 could be made to work, possibly even a 2.3.

Not what you wanted to hear, but there is little point in bolting a rebuilt head to a shot block - and burning oil suggests just that.

 

[kth286]

alway use the dealer for stuff like valve stem seals - very cheap and will be the correct material, guaranteed, and will last for another 20 years.

valve stem seals for my 320 engine from dealer are £1.62p each, come in pack of six for mine.

 

[stuu]

If you are having to pay £12 each for stem seals, then definitely check MB price for complete head gasket set. MB prices can be, not always, but can be, lower than expected, and genuine MB is a selling point if you decide to sell. Stem seals never used to cost £12 each - one tenth of that is what I expected.

Gutsing through oil is not a good sign. The rings I refer to are piston rings, hence a much bigger engine out job, where you will then be faced with difficult choices regarding rebore, crankshaft work, etc. At this point most would consider sourcing a decent secondhand engine. The 'wet' test described earlier should give an indication of ring wear as can a smell of petrol in the oil, probably at it's worst after cold start up - have a sniff with the filler cap removed. Even that isn't conclusive as HG could leak into oilways.

However a point to consider here is why the engine is suffering this type of wear (expect bore wear also - rebore and pistons required) at a low for that engine mileage. Has it been running without an air filter? If so, that could account for the bore/ring wear. Probably not though, in which case the bottom end might be a mess. How is the oil pressure?

If it's burning oil as you say, it may fail MOT. All of which is leading to a big decision. Rebuild this engine, source another, sell the car.

My advice here is go back to the start of this thread, re-read, conduct all the suggested tests, and when a diagnosis emerges, make your decision then.

On the plus side, that engine is a common fitment and probably a unit from a rusty W123 could be made to work, possibly even a 2.3.

Not what you wanted to hear, but there is little point in bolting a rebuilt head to a shot block - and burning oil suggests just that.

Thanks for the info, it is very helpful.

Emissions are fine in the car, I should have said it burns oil more than average but it doesn't need topping up every week, usually every 3/4 weeks!

The owner before messed with the engine, I don't know what he did but he made it a lot worse. AFAIK the car has always had an air filter in it.

Finding another engine (2.0 or a 2.3 8v) in Northern Ireland is like hen's teeth, very hard to get one, so that's why I've been trying to sort this engine.

I found the seals from MB, £30 which I think is reasonable as I thought it was going to be £12 each!

http://www.mercedes-benz-parts.co.u...ls&flypage=shop.flypage&option=com_virtuemart

 

[kth286]

Damn and blast!!!

I've just remembered stem seals are a head off job.

Really ?

Can you not use compressed air or even a coiled rope to hold the valves up. whilst seals are being replaced one by one ?

 

[Will]

Really ?

Can you not use compressed air or even a coiled rope to hold the valves up. whilst seals are being replaced one by one ?

I'm pretty sure you're right - so long as the valve springs can be compressed and the collets removed in situ I can't see why the stem seals cannot be replaced in this way.

But if the HG is aged/suspect I would say it could be a false economy - not a massive job to remove the head on an 8v M102 and you can de-coke/lap the valves in at the same time

Will

 

[stuu]

So guys, is this what I should do?

Leak test then depending on the results

Head gasket, seals, cam shaft cover, de-coke, head bolts

Am I missing anything?

Also, this is my car in question, I love it and will never give up trying to sort it and get it running close to 100% which is why I'm asking all these questions lol

 

[Bellow]

I remember seeing it done on an 1964 Cooper S that way, but with a screwdriver. Compressing the springs is the bvgger. Still a possibility then.

Will: Wet test. If the oil consumption isn't so bad and the wet test checks OK, then it is seals as per above with fuel additive, or, head off and rebuild. If it is valve deposits though, head off and physical clean would be much better. And if engines are scarce, you can't risk damaging the head you have if the HG is on its way out.
Condition of bottom end needs to be ascertained.

 

[stuu]

I remember seeing it done on an 1964 Cooper S that way, but with a screwdriver. Compressing the springs is the bvgger. Still a possibility then.

Will: Wet test. If the oil consumption isn't so bad and the wet test checks OK, then it is seals as per above with fuel additive, or, head off and rebuild. If it is valve deposits though, head off and physical clean would be much better. And if engines are scarce, you can't risk damaging the head you have if the HG is on its way out.
Condition of bottom end needs to be ascertained.

Okay, sounds good to me. Before I even get the wet test done, can fuel economy and power be affected so much by having bad seals, head gasket etc? I've basically replaced every other component in the car so this is the last ditch effort to get her sorted!

 

[Bellow]

Okay, sounds good to me. Before I even get the wet test done, can fuel economy and power be affected so much by having bad seals, head gasket etc? I've basically replaced every other component in the car so this is the last ditch effort to get her sorted!

There has been quite a bit of overlap in posting, so to clarify.

The only way the stem seals could be the cause of loss of power/economy is if the oil getting past them has been deposited on the valves as carbon. It is just a chance that an aggressive fuel additive would remove them, in conjunction with renewing the seals with the head in situ. Bear in mind, if you attempt this and a valve drops, the head will have to come off there and then to retrieve it. It is a tricky little job to pull off but not impossible.

Better though to remove the head and rebuild it, doing thorough de-coke, cleaning of oil and water galleries etc, and fitting new head gasket before any damage can occur by the existing one if it is on the verge of failure.
Looking at the picture, and reading how you regard the car, this has to be the preferred route, the icing on the cake being the use of MB parts.

The above 2 paragraphs can only be considered viable if the bottom end is fine though, as a bottom end rebuild is a cost all on its own and will dwarf anything spent on the head. So best ascertain the condition of it before going further. Follow the suggestion in the preceding posts and consider oil analysis for the final bill of health for the bottom end if all else checks out OK. Analysis will detect identifiable wear metals (crank, shell bearings, rings, block/bore, pistons) and oil and/or water.

My take on this is that the compression isn't bad enough to be the cause of the loss of power/economy, but needs investigating to avoid future trouble - and for peace of mind.
I have seen deposits on valves cause these symptoms though, and physical removal was required in that case. It transformed the performance of the car in question.

That's how I see it, but it's wide open for anyone else to dispute and/or comment further.

Good luck!

 

[stuu]

There has been quite a bit of overlap in posting, so to clarify.

The only way the stem seals could be the cause of loss of power/economy is if the oil getting past them has been deposited on the valves as carbon. It is just a chance that an aggressive fuel additive would remove them, in conjunction with renewing the seals with the head in situ. Bear in mind, if you attempt this and a valve drops, the head will have to come off there and then to retrieve it. It is a tricky little job to pull off but not impossible.

Better though to remove the head and rebuild it, doing thorough de-coke, cleaning of oil and water galleries etc, and fitting new head gasket before any damage can occur by the existing one if it is on the verge of failure.
Looking at the picture, and reading how you regard the car, this has to be the preferred route, the icing on the cake being the use of MB parts.

The above 2 paragraphs can only be considered viable if the bottom end is fine though, as a bottom end rebuild is a cost all on its own and will dwarf anything spent on the head. So best ascertain the condition of it before going further. Follow the suggestion in the preceding posts and consider oil analysis for the final bill of health for the bottom end if all else checks out OK. Analysis will detect identifiable wear metals (crank, shell bearings, rings, block/bore, pistons) and oil and/or water.

My take on this is that the compression isn't bad enough to be the cause of the loss of power/economy, but needs investigating to avoid future trouble - and for peace of mind.
I have seen deposits on valves cause these symptoms though, and physical removal was required in that case. It transformed the performance of the car in question.

That's how I see it, but it's wide open for anyone else to dispute and/or comment further.

Good luck!

Excellent post Bellow. I've used Reddex and Seafoam before but they made zero difference in anything. I will get the tests done then update this thread with the results.

 

[stuu]

The car is currently at a Mercedes specialist in Northern Ireland (T D Heaney).

They haven't had the car for very long but he was able to tell me something straight away when he saw the car.

The fan switch doesn't work in my 190e so i got my local mechanic to weld the fan so it is constantly on. Me being silly, I didn't realise with the fan being on all the time it affects the air/fuel mixture and makes the engine run cooler causing it to idle higher in cold mornings.

There's definitely more wrong than the fan though. I'll update more once I know which could be possibly today.