Dieselman
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- Peugeot 403 Convertible
Has anyone actually heard of a repaired wheel disintegrating and can anyone be sure none of the wheels on their 2nd hand cars haven't been repaired?
Cracked Wheel
- Thread starter DSLiverpool
- Start date
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DSLiverpool
MB Enthusiast
DM echoed my post - hands up who knows they haven't got a welded wheel?
If it does get advertised it will be on here and PH as I prefer an enthusiast to appreciate how "right" it is and colour / wheels / trim etc
I'm only selling if I can change to a Grancabrio and that depends on Xmas and jan sales performance.
If it does get advertised it will be on here and PH as I prefer an enthusiast to appreciate how "right" it is and colour / wheels / trim etc
I'm only selling if I can change to a Grancabrio and that depends on Xmas and jan sales performance.
WDB124066
MB Enthusiast
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- 1996 E320 Sportline Cabriolet x 2
Yes, but, I'd be willing to bet there will be a random % of wheels in the Factory that have NDT carried out on them as part of the QC program.
It is a tricky one, I have little doubt a weld can be done, but how long it will last is the real question - especially if we are uncertain how it got there in the first place...
D
Deleted member 37751
Guest
I might sound a bit strange here, but I take every car that I buy (that will be the family car) to my tyre place and check the alloys and tyres for flat spots/buckles etc etc before I give the car any real hammer. I would expect to be an exception though.
If DS is going to tell the prospective owner about the weld repair, I don't really see an issue; at least then they will have the option of what to do.
Dieselman
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I would have thought it would be very difficult to spot once a refurb has been done.
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DSLiverpool
MB Enthusiast
Just to expand - I wouldn't buy a used wheel to replace this one as it may be worse, as such the option is a new wheel from MB or a trusted source - £1000+
Car is worth circa low twentys if i find the right buyer, and factor in I may have to chop it in - I'm not buying a new wheel as I won't get the £ back
If I keep it then that's a different decision
Car is worth circa low twentys if i find the right buyer, and factor in I may have to chop it in - I'm not buying a new wheel as I won't get the £ back
If I keep it then that's a different decision
hotrodder
Active Member
FWIW I found an MB article on the production of 'their' wheels for one of the previous threads on the subject... http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/1145263-post5.html
Many wheel manufacturers publish both the alloys they use along with heat treatment designations .Typical suspects include AlSiMg and AlSiCu alloys (7 - 10% Si with enough Mg or Cu to get something that can be precipitation hardened), virtually everyone claims to heat treat most both a solution and precipitation (artifical aging) treatment. I'd be very suprised if any wheel manufacturer would sanction repairs but then from the 'pro weld' side they've got a vested interest in selling wheels...
The problem i have with weld repairs to wheels is for the most part the BS that's often spouted about a weld being stronger than the base metal or that the wheel is 'good as new'. Oh, and the number of hacks that are out there- there's a lot more mediocre welders around than there are good ones. The good ones can 1. usually find far better paying/more interesting work than repairing cracked wheels and 2. are more likely to have some understanding of basic metallurgy and so realise that there's more to it than just being able to deposit a sound weld [/gross generalisation]
Weld repairs work because things are made with a safety margin i.e. they're overbuilt. The problem is no one that repairs wheels is gonna know (or stand a chance of finding out) what sort of safety margin there is to play with. The 'better' the wheel (lightweight/forged etc) the smaller the margin will be. This is the reason i generally won't touch wheels- doesn't matter how good a welder i am welding a heat treated aluminium alloy softens (weakens) it local to the weld. While that can be fixed it puts the price up and 1. for many wheels it makes the job uneconomic 2. when it doesn't the punter that paid thousands for their bling drug dealer wheels typically complains about the price of doing the job properly and goes with the cheapest option
I have spotted repairs when looking at used wheels (and so passed on them) but all that really says is that the repair wasn't very good- note i'm not talking about obvious signs like visible weld beads, talking subtle clues that jump out at me because i'm a welder and fabricator. I agree it's very unlikely that a repaired wheel is just going to disintegrate spontaniously... in normal use the crack (or a fresh one in the HAZ) will grow to the point where a slow puncture leads to it's discovery- assuming it's not spotted earlier say during a service or MOT. What about the type of impact that often cracks wheels in the forst place or maybe a high speed blowout? Neither are daily occurances but my thinking is that in those sort of circumstances catastrophic failure of a repaired wheel is more likely?
As the matweb links in the other thread are broken here's a pdf that shows the difference in strength/hardness heat treatment has... http://www.hadleighcastings.com/uploads/LM25 Alloy Detail.pdf Effectively thermal treatment can pretty much double the strength
Many wheel manufacturers publish both the alloys they use along with heat treatment designations .Typical suspects include AlSiMg and AlSiCu alloys (7 - 10% Si with enough Mg or Cu to get something that can be precipitation hardened), virtually everyone claims to heat treat most both a solution and precipitation (artifical aging) treatment. I'd be very suprised if any wheel manufacturer would sanction repairs but then from the 'pro weld' side they've got a vested interest in selling wheels...
The problem i have with weld repairs to wheels is for the most part the BS that's often spouted about a weld being stronger than the base metal or that the wheel is 'good as new'. Oh, and the number of hacks that are out there- there's a lot more mediocre welders around than there are good ones. The good ones can 1. usually find far better paying/more interesting work than repairing cracked wheels and 2. are more likely to have some understanding of basic metallurgy and so realise that there's more to it than just being able to deposit a sound weld [/gross generalisation]
Weld repairs work because things are made with a safety margin i.e. they're overbuilt. The problem is no one that repairs wheels is gonna know (or stand a chance of finding out) what sort of safety margin there is to play with. The 'better' the wheel (lightweight/forged etc) the smaller the margin will be. This is the reason i generally won't touch wheels- doesn't matter how good a welder i am welding a heat treated aluminium alloy softens (weakens) it local to the weld. While that can be fixed it puts the price up and 1. for many wheels it makes the job uneconomic 2. when it doesn't the punter that paid thousands for their bling drug dealer wheels typically complains about the price of doing the job properly and goes with the cheapest option
I have spotted repairs when looking at used wheels (and so passed on them) but all that really says is that the repair wasn't very good- note i'm not talking about obvious signs like visible weld beads, talking subtle clues that jump out at me because i'm a welder and fabricator. I agree it's very unlikely that a repaired wheel is just going to disintegrate spontaniously... in normal use the crack (or a fresh one in the HAZ) will grow to the point where a slow puncture leads to it's discovery- assuming it's not spotted earlier say during a service or MOT. What about the type of impact that often cracks wheels in the forst place or maybe a high speed blowout? Neither are daily occurances but my thinking is that in those sort of circumstances catastrophic failure of a repaired wheel is more likely?
As the matweb links in the other thread are broken here's a pdf that shows the difference in strength/hardness heat treatment has... http://www.hadleighcastings.com/uploads/LM25 Alloy Detail.pdf Effectively thermal treatment can pretty much double the strength
Had the two front tyres replaced on my B Class recently and found one of the wheels had a crack. It was about 25mm long and quite a large gap at the wide end. The wheel was pinned and welded, sent off for roundness check and also pressure check. This apparently is carried out at recognised establishments
not sure, but when the wheel was returned, I inspected it and could not see any blemish, even when it was pointed out where the original crack was. Talking to the tyre dealer, this, because of the state of our roads and more low profile tyres, is quite common having wheels welded. Steel wheels normally dent, alloys crack. I have since covered over 1000 miles with no problems.
not sure, but when the wheel was returned, I inspected it and could not see any blemish, even when it was pointed out where the original crack was. Talking to the tyre dealer, this, because of the state of our roads and more low profile tyres, is quite common having wheels welded. Steel wheels normally dent, alloys crack. I have since covered over 1000 miles with no problems.
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DSLiverpool
MB Enthusiast
Well it's been welded and refitted, I didn't get a pic before refit but I deliberately asked it not to be repainted just lacquered and the weld is very obvious you wouldn't miss it with the wheel off. I shall also write a note in the service book.
The front low leak has held and the car is nigh on perfect, I cannot identify a single fault or blemish its even had a rainex app and it never gets wet ;-)
Now the great British public will determine if I keep it or go Mas
The front low leak has held and the car is nigh on perfect, I cannot identify a single fault or blemish its even had a rainex app and it never gets wet ;-)
Now the great British public will determine if I keep it or go Mas
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DSLiverpool
MB Enthusiast
A few things have changed in my life and its changed what I need from my cars. We adopted twins in October they are 3 on Friday and have changed everything in a good way. I bought the 760 as a daddy car but its useless, it may be big but its a faff where Anna's dodge nitro is so so perfect (but sloooow) we use it when we go out.
So the convertible in the garage has to be a 4 seater for all of us to use and (revenue permitting) I want a Grancabrio Sport sadly I can't afford it (I don't borrow these days) so a normal one will be bought if we have a decent last quarter sales.
I may sell the 760 and use the maserati and get a £1k snotter but even as I'm typing this I know I won't ;-)
Also SL55 prices vary hugely and I want top $ for mine which may take time to achieve but it's blue, shiny and has the right wheels but the wrong (Small) comand which I had a wobble over when buying 2 years ago.
Lets see what transpires.
So the convertible in the garage has to be a 4 seater for all of us to use and (revenue permitting) I want a Grancabrio Sport sadly I can't afford it (I don't borrow these days) so a normal one will be bought if we have a decent last quarter sales.
I may sell the 760 and use the maserati and get a £1k snotter but even as I'm typing this I know I won't ;-)
Also SL55 prices vary hugely and I want top $ for mine which may take time to achieve but it's blue, shiny and has the right wheels but the wrong (Small) comand which I had a wobble over when buying 2 years ago.
Lets see what transpires.
No - I've tried the £1000 snotter and it doesn't work (for me anyway).
Leaves you wanting to change it all the time.
On the plus side - it is quite nice having a car you don't care about though.
I never washed it and generally didn't care where I left it. Marvellous.
Leaves you wanting to change it all the time.
On the plus side - it is quite nice having a car you don't care about though.
I never washed it and generally didn't care where I left it. Marvellous.
Dieselman
Banned
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Just like my car, then.
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DSLiverpool
MB Enthusiast
Dieselman said:
Hmm methinks your car is mechanically better than when it left the factory - but maybe not clean ;-)
Mick K
Member
Just found this thread after having to take the car in for what I thought was a slow puncture on the front nearside. They found a crack on the inside rim and as a temporary measure the mechanic suggested swapping front to back to ease the battering on the tyre while I searched for a solution. That's when I found out that the rear had a bloody great weld already ! (I had never had that wheel off since buying the car 2nd hand) I would never feel safe driving around on ONE welded wheel never mind two. Not exactly the best time of year (When is ?) but I have ordered a set of 4 and await delivery in the new year. Not from Mercedes mind you, I'm not that rich !
I value my life more than the cost let alone any other innocents that may be hurt if the weld fails.
I value my life more than the cost let alone any other innocents that may be hurt if the weld fails.
Mick K
Member
PS The wheels I am waiting for are from Dezent (U's) who apparently are manufacturers for Mercedes, if that is what OEM means !
Not going to let on the cost so as not to invite umpteen posts telling me where I could have got them cheaper and peeing me off !
Merry Xmas all
Not going to let on the cost so as not to invite umpteen posts telling me where I could have got them cheaper and peeing me off !
Merry Xmas all
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