Date change forEV/HYBRID introduction

[glojo]

how many residences have their own fuel refilling tation?

The need for total coverage for EV charge points is still 30+ years away.

ICE cars aren’t disappearing overnight..

Hi Greenman
I fear you missed my point.

If I have been hard at work all day, the very last thing I would want is to spend 30 - 40 minutes charging my car at a garage crikeys only knows how far away from my house.

I am lucky and have a garage where my wife can come home, park our car and simply put the thing on charge. If we lived in a nice terraced house with no off-road parking, then how do we charge the car?

Let's say these terraced houses are in a small village with no public charging points.

I cannot ever see TOTAL coverage of EV charge points. How long before battery power will become out-dated.... It is to me a fad and how dare anyone criticise this mode of power. I will take it seriously the day they take the pollution from aircraft seriously and until that day... This is a fad and to keep repeating a point.

We have ordered a petrol hybrid

 

[whitenemesis]

How about a hydrogen fuel cell, John?

 

[190]

It's too bad for terraced house dwellers and others without off road parking because there is no financial case for an EV charged away from home as the tariffs are a minimum of double the domestic rate per KWh and often triple.

 

[Istbclass]

Unfortunately we have seen how the government business model works with diesel, encourage everyone to swop then up the tax on them, same business model drug dealers use, once the punter is hooked then you can up the price. Several good articles in the daily mail today, and I would like to see the questions raised there answered, but they won’t be because anyone who dares not to be seen as green is a blasphemer, reminds me of the sketch from the life of Brian, what’s that quote about life imitating art.

 

[horatio]

I doubt mass car ownership in its current form is the plan. I expect road pricing and zip-car style ‘on demand renting’ to be really pushed.

Buy something V8 and AMG while you can - it might seem crazy that is was ever allowed some time soon!

 

[Deleted member 149005]

Hi Greenman
I fear you missed my point.

If I have been hard at work all day, the very last thing I would want is to spend 30 - 40 minutes charging my car at a garage crikeys only knows how far away from my house.

I am lucky and have a garage where my wife can come home, park our car and simply put the thing on charge. If we lived in a nice terraced house with no off-road parking, then how do we charge the car?

Let's say these terraced houses are in a small village with no public charging points.

I cannot ever see TOTAL coverage of EV charge points. How long before battery power will become out-dated.... It is to me a fad and how dare anyone criticise this mode of power. I will take it seriously the day they take the pollution from aircraft seriously and until that day... This is a fad and to keep repeating a point.

We have ordered a petrol hybrid

not missing the point at all - i am open to a changing world


It's a wonder anyone bought a car in the early day given the paucity of fuel stations...

You are judging the situation from your own, limited, and dare i say privileged, perspective. Do you think people that live in a "nice" terraced house find it easy to park? What about those that live in a less than "nice" terrace - are you not concerned about them too?

Fewer and fewer youngsters are learning to drive, and the %age of car owner living in flats or terraces, in built up areas is also reducing. In a more rural areas, it just takes some alternative thinking - eg a centralised parking / recharge area. The vast majority of owners don't need to recharge every day, or even every few days, just as they don't refuel with petrol or diesel every day - the average weekly journey distance is well within the range of EVs, which is increasing all the time

As for planes, let us hope you don't want foreign holidays, or global trade, or that urgent part for you overseas assembled car...


Oh and no i won't be buying an EV anytime soon either

The car, as a private ownership privilege, is dead. Long live the car.

 

[ChipChop]

I doubt mass car ownership in its current form is the plan. I expect road pricing and zip-car style ‘on demand renting’ to be really pushed.

Buy something V8 and AMG while you can - it might seem crazy that is was ever allowed some time soon!

If the masses are not allowed to own a private vehicle in the future why should the people renting the cars to the masses be allowed to own fleets of cars? Are these businesses special in some way and therefore allowed to pollute for their own profit.

If you are going to do something do it right. Ban all cars full stop. Scrap all ICE, scrap all existing electric cars.

Back to the horse and cart. Just remember to pick up your horse crap otherwise you will incur the wrath of the enforcement brigade.

So called green zero carbon policy is such nonsense when every living sentient being on this planet exhales CO2.

 

[Deleted member 149005]

So called green zero carbon policy is such nonsense when every living thing on this planet exhales CO2.

apart from plants which breathe in CO2

 

[Istbclass]

Greenmans comment about early car ownership are valid, however society is now vastly different to then, in those days the vast majority of workers worked within walking distance of work, they had to, there was no transport. How we square This circle of getting people to work who don’t live close to work will be a challenge.

 

[Harrythedog]

The whole argument reminds me of The King’s New Clothes.
The climate argument is kicked into to touch by a huge increase in the carbon footprint of making an EV compared to an ICE vehicle. More than half the World’s Cobalt, a major component of batteries, is mined in the DR Congo, not the most stable of countries and surely on the hit list of China fir “future investment”.
So while us mere mortals are scratching around for the money to buy an EV , running extension cables for a charge and getting stuck on a road in between your home and destination waiting for a charge the Chinese are opening new coal mines every week.
Not withstanding all that the hardest job will be convincing the USA, Russia, China, the Arabs et al to closed their oil wells

 

[ToeKnee]

The simple answer is to ban all car ownership with one exception! That means all current cars whether ice, hybrid or electric will have to be seized and disposed of with no compensation at all. The only exemption is for current taxi owners to stay on the road and to do all the travel and commuting for anyone that needs it..........

 

[Dryce]

If the masses are not allowed to own a private vehicle in the future why should the people renting the cars to the masses be allowed to own fleets of cars? Are these businesses special in some way and therefore allowed to pollute for their own profit.

As is often commented (even lamented) on the forums - many 'owners' of cars are in effect renting their cars from finance companies via leases and PCPs.

And again it is often pointed out that if you do own a private vehicle it is depreciation that is usually the biggest cost and not the fuel.

The products and fuel are taxed and regulated.

So private vehicle ownership currently involves renting from massive fleets of cars with a high level of government requirements and tax.

So shifting the massed to a regulated and centralised vehicle rental model isn't actualy as big a tep as it might seem - and getting individuals to detach the idea of vehicle ownership being central to private transport and bearing the unshaerd burden of depreciation on their own personal vehicle might actually be a good thing.

 

[Dryce]

. How we square This circle of getting people to work who don’t live close to work will be a challenge.

Ironically ..... we have a lot of people now working within 0 distance of their home.

 

[Deleted member 149005]

If the masses are not allowed to own a private vehicle in the future why should the people renting the cars to the masses be allowed to own fleets of cars? Are these businesses special in some way and therefore allowed to pollute for their own profit.

yes - fewer cars, of a far more efficient design, has to be good from both a build and usage perspective- you’ve sold it!

the greater usage of individual vehicles, as “taxis” offsets the greater cost of purchase.

 

[Dickster]

The whole argument reminds me of The King’s New Clothes.
The climate argument is kicked into to touch by a huge increase in the carbon footprint of making an EV compared to an ICE vehicle. More than half the World’s Cobalt, a major component of batteries, is mined in the DR Congo, not the most stable of countries and surely on the hit list of China fir “future investment”.
So while us mere mortals are scratching around for the money to buy an EV , running extension cables for a charge and getting stuck on a road in between your home and destination waiting for a charge the Chinese are opening new coal mines every week.
Not withstanding all that the hardest job will be convincing the USA, Russia, China, the Arabs et al to closed their oil wells

Quite right, and the whole 1% that the UK contributes to world pollution will obviously save the planet

 

[Dickster]

I’d like to know where the planets natural climate change fits in all of this? I mean, I know they are few and far between, but one day there will be another ice age!

 

[ChipChop]

As is often commented (even lamented) on the forums - many 'owners' of cars are in effect renting their cars from finance companies via leases and PCPs.

And again it is often pointed out that if you do own a private vehicle it is depreciation that is usually the biggest cost and not the fuel.

The products and fuel are taxed and regulated.

So private vehicle ownership currently involves renting from massive fleets of cars with a high level of government requirements and tax.

So shifting the massed to a regulated and centralised vehicle rental model isn't actualy as big a tep as it might seem - and getting individuals to detach the idea of vehicle ownership being central to private transport and bearing the unshaerd burden of depreciation on their own personal vehicle might actually be a good thing.

Individuals detaching from the notion of vehicle ownership is a terrible idea from an environmental persepective. The fastest car in the world is a hired car. No incentive to keep the thing maintained until it's 3rd birthday when an MOT is due and the lessor or owner will then sell the car presumably to another rental firm (if private car ownership is banned) for those less well off. And so the cycle continues until the car is dead and scrapped at 5 years old. Increasing consumption not decreasing it.

 

[Dryce]

Individuals detaching from the notion of vehicle ownership is a terrible idea from an environmental persepective. The fastest car in the world is a hired car. No incentive to keep the thing maintained until it's 3rd birthday when an MOT is due and the lessor or owner will then sell the car presumably to another rental firm (if private car ownership is banned) for those less well off. And so the cycle continues until the car is dead and scrapped at 5 years old. Increasing consumption not decreasing it.

I think you're making a number of misconnections here.

Private vehicle ownership makes it more difficult to regulate. Conversely that's because choice of inefficient vehicles and miscontruing actual costs is a private freedom.

However. I look at the rows of rental bicycles stacked at various urban locations and look at the bicycles easily available *for private sale*. And there is a clear distinction in what the private market pushes - and what the public rental market pushes as urban cycles. And I think this sort of differentiation shows where the market for private vehicles detaches itself from the reality of what is actually the optimal product for the benefit of the customer. The UK car market exhibits similar traits.

 

[Deleted member 149005]

Individuals detaching from the notion of vehicle ownership is a terrible idea from an environmental persepective. The fastest car in the world is a hired car. No incentive to keep the thing maintained until it's 3rd birthday when an MOT is due and the lessor or owner will then sell the car presumably to another rental firm (if private car ownership is banned) for those less well off. And so the cycle continues until the car is dead and scrapped at 5 years old. Increasing consumption not decreasing it.

completely missing the point that the vast majority of new cars in the developed world are hired (via PCP leases)

 

[Benzowner]

To my mind, the whole issue was summed up on todays news. Columbia was hit by a category 5 hurricane, the first since the 1930's. Commentator then said it only proves that climate change is making the weather worse!! So what the hell happened in the 1930's?