Detailing - load of tosh

[Bobby Dazzler]

I understand the above Rob, but clean is clean. Brand new car, washed & waxed, how can it get any cleaner?

It's like me saying, I clean the Windows on my house once a week. But to get them even cleaner I get them done professionally thrice a year!

Dealers prep new cars before collection even if you don't pay for Supaguard (unless you ask them not to) which probably adds as much dirt, damage and contamination as it removes! But for most of us, most of the time, a quick clean is enough, whether on a new or old car.

The cost (in time or money) of chasing diminishing returns is worth it to some. The individual differences are small but add up to something bigger, which some place a disproportionate value upon. The higher the standard the more difficult it is to improve upon.

 

[Rory]

"Let it dwell"

When I read about detailing that's the phrase that always has me shaking my head.

 

[developer]

Detailing is cleaning and polishing a car really well. A proper job. Spending more time to achieve a higher standard than the average.

Top-end detailing is cleaning and polishing a car really really well. A right proper job. Spending much more time to achieve a much higher standard than even regular detailing.

Do people believe it's anything other than that? OK so the terminology they use is amusing to an outsider, but that's true in other walks of life. Any field of specialism develops it's own vocabulary, so why would cleaning cars to a really high standard be any different?

Detailing is a luxury reserved only for the rich, or for those who prioritise it over other expenses in life. For those rich in cash, they can pay a professional to achieve a finish that they don't have the time or skill to achieve. For those rich in time, they can dedicate the time to develop the skills to be able to achieve a finish that they're happy with.

For those not rich in either respect, need not worry about having a car which is anything other than reasonably clean. After pall it's a car, which gets dirty. Quickly.

I have a one off hit (treatment) shortly after getting the car. It lasts (usually) for the year or two I keep the car, provided I wash the car with care and generally look after it, which I do.

Dirty?

Rinse over - back to a high standard again - more time for driving.

Job done.

 

[moonloops]

I have a one off hit (treatment) shortly after getting the car. It lasts (usually) for the year or two I keep the car, provided I wash the car with care and generally look after it, which I do.

Dirty?

Rinse over - back to a high standard again - more time for driving.

Job done.

Leg = been lifted

 

[developer]

Leg = been lifted

You be the judge of that
Collection day after Gtechniq:


About 12 months later, with only washes in between:

 

[Toobad]

Why is it necessary to be so judgemental about the way a person chooses to spend his hard-earned cash? Surely everybody is allowed to pursue whatever brings them satisfaction and joy without being ridiculed. Many people enjoy good food or wine and these gastronauts or oenophiles quite happily drop shed loads of cash in pursuit of what they perceive as unique experiences. To me, it is just nosh and plonk but I am sufficiently broadminded to acknowledge their passion and pursuit of enjoyment. It is all about respect really.

 

[camerafodder]

The premise of the whole thread is odd. Why denigrate your brother's business publicly? Are you jealous that he built and sold what appears to be a successful company? Something deeper going on here I think...

 

[foxy52]

Why is it necessary to be so judgemental about the way a person chooses to spend his hard-earned cash? Surely everybody is allowed to pursue whatever brings them satisfaction and joy without being ridiculed. Many people enjoy good food or wine and these gastronauts or oenophiles quite happily drop shed loads of cash in pursuit of what they perceive as unique experiences. To me, it is just nosh and plonk but I am sufficiently broadminded to acknowledge their passion and pursuit of enjoyment. It is all about respect really.

..No surprise then that on forums such as ours u will always get people making sarky comments about in this case detailing... I love a clean highly polished car .. but as sure as eggs are eggs and a friend spent 5 large on his e350 estate ...over the late autumn and winter it looked filthy again.... granted after a supa clean its easier to get the grime off.. but my opinion is do it yourself...wash and wax..turtle wax regular..... with a polishing about
once every month.. it will end up looking just as good over a year as if you had spent 500 quid on it.. and that pays for a lot of cleaning equip..!!...
best product on the market is the modern powercham type leather cloth substitute....u keep it in a plastic roll to stop it drying out.. they last about a year if keep clean after using.. no smears and so easy to use .. foxy52

 

[Deleted member 37751]

You be the judge of that
Collection day after Gtechniq:


About 12 months later, with only washes in between:

Looks terrible John, you better give it to me before it gets any dirtier.

 

[moonloops]

Detailer speak = "decorative plastic" normal human = "engine cover"

 

[developer]

..No surprise then that on forums such as ours u will always get people making sarky comments about in this case detailing... I love a clean highly polished car .. but as sure as eggs are eggs and a friend spent 5 large on his e350 estate ...over the late autumn and winter it looked filthy again.... granted after a supa clean its easier to get the grime off.. but my opinion is do it yourself...wash and wax..turtle wax regular..... with a polishing about
once every month.. it will end up looking just as good over a year as if you had spent 500 quid on it.. and that pays for a lot of cleaning equip..!!...
best product on the market is the modern powercham type leather cloth substitute....u keep it in a plastic roll to stop it drying out.. they last about a year if keep clean after using.. no smears and so easy to use .. foxy52

Another way of achieving a similar end .

One labour intensive and one relatively labour free, but both with the aim of looking after something we have a spent a lot of hard earned on.

I "get" the wash/polish/wax scene - to many it's a fine way to spend a Sunday morning - though not for me personally.

If a car is just a lump of metal, then the £3.00 Eastern Euro Scratchbay will suffice.

If a car is a thing of pleasure, a hobby, something that puts you in the camp of an "enthusiast", then you'll probably want to take more care of it.

Each to their own really - I'm off to put send some 600 horses down the icy road outside .

Edit - the gritters have been out - I'm taking the old Focus instead

 

[moonloops]

Detailer speak = "truly neglected car" normal human = "a car who's owner recognises the bullspit detailing industry for what it is"

 

[zoros]

Camerafodder? You're missing the point along with several others.
My brother sold his company for millions. A teenie weenie offspin is detailing.
We constantly have a good giggle about the sort of people who ask for his companies services in this arena. BUT - we don't giggle about them having loads of money (some don't have loads of money though), we giggle because they genuinely believe they are investing in something which they think works and actually makes a difference - it bloo**y well doesn't make any difference at all!! It's not about how much money the car owner has - OK?
There might be a very good reason for spending £500+ on an old classic that has seen better days and is a little jaded, but detailing a 2 or 3 or 4 year old car - is a joke and the lemon who had it done is living in another parallel.
My wife bought a brand new 66 plate Quattro last month. During the sales pitch, the guy offered to 'coat' this brand new warranted car with a compound that would 'preserve' its condition for 3 years....only for £700. And people fall for it!!! (My brother loves it because he introduced it into the industry several years ago). So here we have a major distibutor telling clients that the car 'may' need additional protection to its bodywork? How does that work then?

I know people who spend thousands on their sound systems at home, I spend thousands on my car (mechanically)... but the important thing to remember here is that we get value for money. Whatpossible value for money comes from Detailing? The car is VERY VERY shiny for several hours and then it's back to square one again. NUTS!

I will end by bigging up all detailers - you do a superb job, no doubt and the end result of your labours should be applauded (because detailers do put in an enormous amount of effort) but you need to think very very carefully about your ethics and what you tell your customer - for it is not a mysterious art form and the end product is not unique. Labour + Wax = shine. The rest is all smoke and mirrors. Get over it.

 

[Alex225]

These end users have built an empire on cleaning and polishing cars. One of their techniques involves using some of the latest chemicals (which has been sourced from eastern Europe) which comes with a 5 year guarantee with the need never to polish your car again???? [How does that work then?].

The end user then charges....wait for it....£600 to valet a car with this product. The rest of the package charge is used to cover the labour (4-6hrs) and profit. All from a £15 bottle of gunk - sprouts forth an entire industry of detailing.
And do you know what - the punter falls for it hook line and sinker. You couldn't make it up.

OP, I think you've missed the point a little with detailing. If you simply want a car clean, then a scrub with a sponge and bucket will suffice. The key is in the detail though (hence the name) so to assume it's just cleaning is a little off the mark.

For example a minor detail from a detailer not a valeter would be something along the lines of -

• Clean the car, remove decontaminants such as tar, iron fallout with specific products and then claying the bodywork.
• Clean the car a second time to remove residue and then dry.
• Polish the car usually by machine
• Apply a sealant and/or wax
• Remove wheels, remove contaminents, aply protection and re-fit wheels

Now a valeter who knocks out multiple cars a day for £20-30 a go is not going to take the time to do those steps. You're look at a days work there and that's not taking into account full correction of paint, engine bays, interiors, multiple layers of waxes....there is a lot to it. This is where the prices can add up.

You also mention these coatings that last years. There's two trails of thought on this. There are coatings that will last years (Gtechniq C1, Kamikaze ISM etc.). They are not cheap to buy and nor are they quick and simple to apply. You would have wanted the various prep stages carried out prior to it being applied and even then it's not simply a case of wiping it around and then buffing it off.

Based on that, would I trust your average valeter or dealership car scrubber to apply a coating they're charging me £300 for?? Hell no because there's no way they have time or inclination to follow the very specific steps required. To do the job properly, you'd be looking at spending days not hours prepping the car properly and then applying the coating. Then it will repel water and continue to look good for years to come, assuming it's washed safely and not scrubbed and coated in harsh cleaners by the local car wash.

Ultimately though, the eye is in the detail. The photo below shows how a lot of paintwork looks on the left compared to how it can be corrected on the right.

Personally I prefer my paintwork to look like the right hand part of the photo hence I will use detailing products and take the time to care for my cars. They cost me a lot of money and I want them to stand out alongside the average mum tank that looks more like the paintwork on the left!

It's a personal preference and if a clean car to the OP is simple one that's been washed then fair enough but to say it's a 'load of tosh' as a hugely misinformed statement I'm afraid.

 

[moonloops]

Detailer speak = "we treated the car with" Normal human speak = "we cleaned the car with"

 

[zoros]

Alex 225. Thanks for a constructive response.

I would add however, that my brother employs/employed several detailers who charge anything from £500 to £1000 for a detailing/paint correction, call it what you want.

The MAXIMUM time he spends on any car (because time IS money) is 10 hours and this is normally associated with his higher prices for obvious reasons!

On the whole and because he has tested the market, his 'rates' are more or less £100/hour. [Minus all the materials which amount to about £50 (for him)).

He admits that this is a total rip off but there are no end of punters willing to swallow the dazzle and hype attached to this cottage industry (and it is a small industry). He provides a service and propaganda provides the clientelle - end.

Good luck to you and your fraternity for being very entrepreneurial and dynamic. I wish you true success in your endeavours.
BUT never ever try to kid a kidder!

 

[Alex225]

Alex 225. Thanks for a constructive response.

I would add however, that my brother employs/employed several detailers who charge anything from £500 to £1000 for a detailing/paint correction, call it what you want.

The MAXIMUM time he spends on any car (because time IS money) is 10 hours and this is normally associated with his higher prices for obvious reasons!

On the whole and because he has tested the market, his 'rates' are more or less £100/hour. [Minus all the materials which amount to about £50 (for him)).

He admits that this is a total rip off but there are no end of punters willing to swallow the dazzle and hype attached to this cottage industry (and it is a small industry). He provides a service and propaganda provides the clientelle - end.

Good luck to you and your fraternity for being very entrepreneurial and dynamic. I wish you true success in your endeavours.
BUT never ever try to kid a kidder!

To be honest, he sounds like he's making an extremely good living from his business and if people pay those prices then fair play.

One thing I will say is that £100 an hour is bloody high and I wouldn't expect to pay that. In fact there is a professional detailer who I know various people on here have used and whom is a personal friend as well who wouldn't dream of charing those rates.

I have seen his work, spending days wet sanding to a perfect finish or effectively restoring a car via detailing. 10 hours is not that long considering the levels that can be achieved but your brother is running a business and if people pay they pay.

One thing that's for sure, with detailing there is a huge snob value. People assume most cost equates to better products or services. Not always the case.

 

[Yugguy]

OP you could appy your logic to ANY walk of life.

Why are we all in Mercs when there are cheaper, just as well-equipped cars?

Why do some audio enthusiasts pay a grand a metre for cables?

You pays yer money and you takes yer choice. Developers car looks fantastic.

BTW no true detailer would be seen dead with a can of t-cut. That's well out of favour these days.

 

[ftb]

The OP is old and envious of his brother's fortune. Next...

 

[developer]

My brother owns (or owned) one of the biggest car valeting companies in GB until recently after 16 years building it up.
One sales 'arm' was the stock they used to supply Detailers / high end distributors / main showrooms.
These end users have built an empire on cleaning and polishing cars. One of their techniques involves using some of the latest chemicals (which has been sourced from eastern Europe) which comes with a 5 year guarantee with the need never to polish your car again???? [How does that work then?].
Anyway, my brothers company sell this wholesale for £36 a bottle after buying it for £15 from Europe.
The end user then charges....wait for it....£600 to valet a car with this product. The rest of the package charge is used to cover the labour (4-6hrs) and profit. All from a £15 bottle of gunk - sprouts forth an entire industry of detailing.
And do you know what - the punter falls for it hook line and sinker. You couldn't make it up.

What prompted to you raise this OP - seeming to make the forum aware of how dumb some of it's members are?

It's an odd thing to do, unprompted, on a car forum.

And more - strange

Just spoke to him - its a ceramic polymer called Omega?

He's been doing this for 25 years and confirms that detailing is a complete smoke and mirrors con. Get car detailed, a week later its dirty - wash it and it never looks like it did after the detailing, so guess what, they come back for more!! Keeps detailers in a job I guess but god there are some mugs out there who just can't wait to part with their money eh?