Diesel Power

[ChrissyBoy]

Whilst there is a degree of me playing devil's advocat here (I actually think my e270 performs superbly), what I really miss is the revs. I no longer have the confidence to overtake like I did in the 330. A couple of times now I've found myself on the wrong side of the road pulling like a train.... then.... I'm out of the torque band seemingly in limbo, praying for the next wallop of power.

Having said that, what's really surprised me is the bottom end performance, which has turned out to be the inverse of what I really expected. 0-80 mph I find to be really strong, but it does seems to tail off after that point, where the 330 would be relentlessly pulling.

In reality, I'm probably making unfair comparisons - 3.0L 230BHP compact executive vs 2.7L 177BHP executive class was never going to be a fair fight.

 

[Richard W]

...... the 330i (with 231bhp and only 300Nm)....

'nuff said

 

[Satch]

Having said that, what's really surprised me is the bottom end performance, which has turned out to be the inverse of what I really expected. 0-80 mph I find to be really strong, but it does seems to tail off after that point, where the 330 would be relentlessly pulling.
.

Well, that is to be expected as you drop off the top of the torque band. Design brief has "storm along autobahns" built into it but that may in practical terms translate into doing really well at speeds up 130kph (85mph) which is the "suggested" speed on derestricted autobahn sections and the real or implied limit in a lot of Europe. Maybe not surprising that beyond that the performance is going to drop off.

My E320Cdi on a recent trip to Germany showed exactly the same characteristic, going strongly up to 150kph (95mph) but then progressively tailing off in rate of accereration terms. Still gets to higher speeds easily enough, but you have lost that big shove effect as you go over the 2800rpm point and the torque starts to drop off.

For my money the autobox on an E320Cdi at times seems a bit too keen to drop a gear or two and not let the available torque work for it.

So do not think it is really possible to say in general terms if diesel is better than petrol or vice versa. They do things in a different way and it really depends on what you want. Me, I would just love a E400Cdi but I would not drive it nor expect it drive it in the same way as the nearest petrol equivalent

 

[GrahamC230K]

at speeds up 130kph (85mph) which is the "suggested" speed on derestricted autobahn sections

Now you tell me!

 

[esox]

.

For those with petrol engines try driving without going ever over 4,000 revs. No go.

.

I could drive all day below 4ooorpm no problem at all.Even if i floor the throttle and manually change up at that speed my 230 K would be quick enough.This engine redlines @6000,if i remember correctly my previous 220 CDi was 5500 so the Kompressor isnt a thrashy engine.Diesels are quick from the oft-quoted 50-70 mph etc bands,its the 0-50 thats the problem!
Petrol engines are the sweeter,livelier,more "natural"design,however good the diesel you just cant get away from that feeling of a huge,weighty rotating mass in front of you.Even the diesel`s most advantageous asset(low fuel consumption)is under question these days,all that power has to come from somewhere,we`ve had a few posts here with 320CDi owners dissapointed with their 30 mpg.

 

[marcos]

I chose the E320 CDI over the E320 because it felt quicker, was quicker and to drive fast seemed less stressfull.
I have no regrets about buying it but I do miss the lovely sound of my old C240's V6 engine.
BTW I manage to get an average of 33mpg out of mine and I have a heavy right foot, when I'm feeling a bit chilled out I have managed 42mpg so the fuel consumption is pretty good for a powerfull car.

 

[ChrissyBoy]

Diesels are quick from the oft-quoted 50-70 mph etc bands,its the 0-50 thats the problem!
Petrol engines are the sweeter,livelier,more "natural"design,however good the diesel you just cant get away from that feeling of a huge,weighty rotating mass in front of you.Even the diesel`s most advantageous asset(low fuel consumption)is under question these days,all that power has to come from somewhere,we`ve had a few posts here with 320CDi owners dissapointed with their 30 mpg.

OK I'm switching sides. I think you'll find that even an E270CDI will keep up with the 230K, with a 0-60 of 8.4 secs. The E320CDI would blitz it with 7.7 secs.

You need to drive a 2.7D upwards to feel the performance potential - in no way does my car feel sluggish and heavy.

My original point related to comparing diesels with real performance cars such as a 330i, WRX, etc, where I thought the heavy duty diesel-heads may have been getting a little carried away ;-)

 

[RichardM]

OK I'm switching sides. I think you'll find that even an E270CDI will keep up with the 230K, with a 0-60 of 8.4 secs. The E320CDI would blitz it with 7.7 secs.

Getting picky I know, but that's the 0-62.5 times, 0-60 is quicker. I've timed my own at 7.9.

I test drove the E240 before the E270CDi and it felt big, heavy and sluggish, the E270 in comparison accelerated effortlessly at all speeds. I can't see why anyone would want the E240 over the E270CDi, and likewise the E320 over the E320CDi.

 

[jimmy]

I can't see why anyone would want the E240 over the E270CDi, and likewise the E320 over the E320CDi.

It's because people still see diesels as being sluggish and noisy when in fact they are the opposite. Even my old technology TD is very quick and quieter than my last C180.

Diesels are more relaxing to drive, less revs and noise are required to make the same progress and when you want to shift you have relentless power delivery with very little use of kickdown required.

I guess my enthusiasm comes from driving diesel powered tractors etc, I used to operate a huge tractor with a 8 litre, 300+hp Cummins engine and bucket loads of torque @ 1700rpm with a top engine speed of 2250rpm.

I have probably had about 15-20 cars and only 4 have been petrol, I keep going back to diesels. True, the 0-60 or 0-100mph times may not be as quick as a C240 or C230K but I bet the more usable 30-70 and 50-70 is quicker which makes overtaking safe and enjoyable.

Plus, there are alternatives to petrol derived or dino diesel.

 

[esox]

OK I'm switching sides. I think you'll find that even an E270CDI will keep up with the 230K, with a 0-60 of 8.4 secs. The E320CDI would blitz it with 7.7 secs.

;-)

If the 270 hits [email protected] then no,230K is 7.9.
320cdi @ 7.7?, 0.2 of a sec does not a blitz make.

 

[ChrissyBoy]

If the 270 hits [email protected] then no,230K is 7.9.
320cdi @ 7.7?, 0.2 of a sec does not a blitz make.

As Richard pointed out, I was mistakenly quoting 0-62 times, so I guess I was underselling the oil burners.

Chill; I don't want to fall out with anybody. I'm sure the 230K feels infinitely more refined than either the 270 or the 320.

Maybe at the next GTG there should be some sort of contest to sort this out once and for all 230K vs 240 vs 270CDI vs 320CDI vs 320??? Now that would be interesting...

 

[GrahamC230K]

It can all be settled at Bruntingthorpe. I think this thread has achieved what it set out to do!!

 

[marcos]

My W211 E320 CDI seems to get quicker the more miles I put on it. Just out of interest I have just come back along the A414 from Harlow and booted it as a little muppet in a Clio 16v thingy was trying to read the manufacturers code on my rear bumper. The thing accelerated like a rocket until I looked at the speedo, 125mph, a bit too fast for public roads I thought but I was surprised how easily it pulled past the 100mph mark and still kept pulling like a rocket untill I got my senses back. I know the car is capable of 150something but the pull from 100mph upwards is terrific.
Funny how a bit of Metallica on the CD player and a daft Essex boy up your booty turns you into a raving phscopath

RichardM - the bit AFTER the cameras going between Harlow and the Amwell roundabout

 

[silverarrow]

umm interesting but mpg and resale value and servicing costs

 

[GrahamC230K]

I know the car is capable of 150something but the pull from 100mph upwards is terrific.

I feel likewise about my car. It's a sod that one of the best things about the car you can never really use!

Certainly in mine it doesn't seem to pull as stong at lesser speeds. Or maybe it's just all in my mind

 

[Shude]

I feel likewise about my car. It's a sod that one of the best things about the car you can never really use!

Certainly in mine it doesn't seem to pull as stong at lesser speeds. Or maybe it's just all in my mind

some guy in a gutless fiesta tried to get clever at about 80mph on the motorway, so I just floored it and vanished from his view. Any car can do 80mph, but you need something a bit more pokey than a 1.1 to make a difference at that speed, esp when trying it on with a car packing about 3 times the power he was.

Sadly as you say, it's rare that you get chance to use this power.

 

[Robbo]

I test drove the E240 before the E270CDi and it felt big, heavy and sluggish, the E270 in comparison accelerated effortlessly at all speeds. I can't see why anyone would want the E240 over the E270CDi, and likewise the E320 over the E320CDi.

Well for me its about refinement. The choice for me was between the C270 and C320. I just love the smoothness of the V6 engine and thats why I ended up with the petrol. The diesel despite all the logical reasons to have one like economy, lower depreciation, cheaper servicing etc. just didnt float my boat.

About this 4000 rpm thing, I have just come back from a holiday in the Lakes and at no time did I need to go over 4000 rpm to make rapid progress. The 320 engine pulls quite strongly at lowish revs and many times I was able to carry out quick overtaking manouevers up quite steep inclines without ever needing to get near 4000 rpm. When you do push it above 4000 revs, then wow what a wonderful sound!

Regarding economy, on the 270 mile drive back, I managed to get 38 mpg with the cruise set at 70, and that included twisty stuff in the lake district before joining the motorway. I am pretty satisfied with this figure. OK not diesel economy but good enough.

Cheers

 

[RichardM]

My W211 E320 CDI seems to get quicker the more miles I put on it. Just out of interest I have just come back along the A414 from Harlow and booted it as a little muppet in a Clio 16v thingy was trying to read the manufacturers code on my rear bumper. The thing accelerated like a rocket until I looked at the speedo, 125mph, a bit too fast for public roads I thought but I was surprised how easily it pulled past the 100mph mark and still kept pulling like a rocket untill I got my senses back. I know the car is capable of 150something but the pull from 100mph upwards is terrific.
Funny how a bit of Metallica on the CD player and a daft Essex boy up your booty turns you into a raving phscopath

RichardM - the bit AFTER the cameras going between Harlow and the Amwell roundabout

This is the stretch of road I managed to earn the points on my license not from the camera's but by a red 3 series unmarked police car.

Great stretch of road, just be careful what's behind you.

 

[Satch]

Any car can do 80mph, but you need something a bit more pokey than a 1.1 to make a difference at that speed, esp when trying it on with a car packing about 3 times the power he was.

Sadly as you say, it's rare that you get chance to use this power.

If on an on an uphill stetch, slow down a bit so tailgating wretch in Fiesta/Saxo/Nova/White Van etc. has to ease off, then floor it. Result is most satisfying, as having lost momentum and being subject to laws of gravity in underpowered vehicle they just have to watch as you steam away............

 

[garystu1965]

Diesel v Petrol

I owned a Lexus GS300 Sport (2000) for 14 months. 3 litre 219bhp.
I never liked it (ride was abysmal). What made my decision to defo sell it was the drive of a BMW 530d. Flaming hell it was like driving a space shuttle ! That didn't certainly run out of steam at higher revs. Since that drive I've been set on getting a diesel. After driving several shabby 530d's with poor specs I drove a Mercedes C270 CDI (2003) with sports pack. Within 5 minutes of driving it I wanted that car. It's got the COMAND system as well. To me it seemed as fast and urgent to drive as the 530d and had a vastly superior interior and kit - it also feels very solid. I think the 17" wheels make the drive a bit sharper. Sold my Lexus and bought the Merc (main dealer). To sum up the 219bhp 3 litre Lexus felt like a milk float compared to the 530d and C270 CDI and I never got more than 21mpg in it !!! I hope the C270 proves to be a good buy.