disaster with Alfa purchase!

[SilverSaloon]

disaster with Alfa purchase! - urgent advice needed!

Hi

i bought a 2nd hand car from a garage (not main dealer) about 2 weeks ago. It came with a new fresh MOT with the purchase and a months warranty.

all seemed fine and we drove it 200 miles to visit family. Wife mentioned that it was making a strange noise when cold from the front of the car since she got it and when we got there i jacked it up to take a little look. to my horror, the upper suspension arms had severe play in the mounts, on both sides, so severe you could hold the arm with your hand and without much effort move the wheel around. i took it to a quikfit place who said it was shot and required main dealer work, so i phoned the garage who wants me to tow it to the garage to be repaired under their warranty (which is just them doing it i believe as problems arise). quikfit guy says it shouldnt of passed an MOT in that state.

so i call out the AA to get it towed - they come and check it out and the guy happened to of worked at Alfa for years before being an AA man. he took a good look round the car and said its an absolute dog required ££££ amount of work - steering knackered, engine mounts shot, suspension shot, rear tyres split in the middle on the underside, serious overheating issue. AA guy reckons cost of repair could easily be in the thousands.

when i purchased it we had a good look round but as it was getting a fresh MOT prior to delivery i didnt look as hard as i would of normally of done.

any ideas where i can proceed from here. As it was purchased from a garage what sort of comeback do i have? AA guy was saying i should get them to inspect it and then return it to the garage as unfit for purpose, but thats £200 and the garage could/can(?) still say tough....

cheers for any advice. at the moment its on its way to the garage on the towtruck with our intention of just asking for our money back. the garage has already agreed to fix the suspension issue.

i have a feeling i'm stuck with it, but am I? I've been on a few websites who say i can return it under the sales of goods act but the AA guy says i have to give them a chance to fix it first???

cheers

Derek

 

[d w124]

Very sorry to hear about it,and i hope you`ll get your money back.First thing you could do though,is to change your avatar

 

[MD5]

Derek,

It may not be an easy journey, but I would insist on a full refund. You would need documented evidence of its unroadworthiness, though. Comebacks on both the garage and the testing station, but they are in a stronger position if they have the car.

 

[SilverSaloon]

wife is phoning the garage in a bit to speak to them and ask for a refund on our card (paid via debit card) as soon as the car is delivered back to them. Car is on route to garage as i speak - AA say we can change the destination at any point before they arrive - it will take a few hours. we live about 40 miles from the garage.

AA man says if they refuse the refund then we can get it towed to our house and we then have the car to get it independently inspected without the possibilty of the garage "meddling" with it etc

 

[pos.k]

sorry to hear about your bad luck.

REPORT IT TO THEM IN WRITING. NOW! REGISTERED POST

sorry for shouting, but it is very important.
Explain the situation calmly but firmly. Question the MOT and who provided it. Explain that they have 7 days to reply before you pass this to trading standards and the police.

OK, you will now have their attention and can discuss the way forward - which should probably be a full refund.

I would get trading standards involved anyway, as this is most likely one of many potentially dangerous cars that they are peddling.

 

[MD5]

I'd be inlcined to sound out the garage regarding a refund before the car arrives. If they don't want to do this, I would discuss an independant inspection and trading standards with them, then divert the car.

 

[davidjpowell]

If you padi by Visa debit card it may be worth asking your bank about getting the payment returned when they have the car. Not sure how it works but I have heard that Visa apply some of the credit card rules to the debit card.

I do think you need an engineers report if you are to reject the car. I'm sure that if a garage is selling a car in a dangerous condition Trading Standards would be keen to get involved also.

The more hassle the garage has the easier it is to give you your £2k back...

 

[flango]

Will ask Mrs F for the expert opinion and what your rights are will post back soon but I am sure someone reputable who trades cars on here will advise from a garages perspective and what their obligations are.

 

[buccal]

If you padi by Visa debit card it may be worth asking your bank about getting the payment returned when they have the car. Not sure how it works but I have heard that Visa apply some of the credit card rules to the debit card.

QUOTE]

Good advice, but from personal experience Mastercard were absolutely useless in getting a depsit back on a car which turned out to be a disaster.

 

[219]

I think I'd want the car inspected elsewhere before letting this garage touch it again - unless by some miracle they agree upfront to give a full refund .

Since it has just been MOT'd , why not call VOSA and tell them what the AA man has said ? They might take up your case with a view to investigating the MOT station who passed the car with defects that patently must have been present at the time of the test - this inspection could also be used against the selling garage .

Alfa's are lovely cars when they're going , but ......

 

[grober]

If you get landed with a car like this the immediate instinct is to get rid of it immediately- back to where it came from. Wrong move. First thing is get the car inspected by an independent assessor such as the AA or an ALFA trained specialist even get it re MOT tested! . Take lots of photographs if they don't. This will cost money but essential expenditure if you want to get your money back. You need a record of the condition of the car exactly as it was sold to you. If you let them try to repair it your case is weakened and you then become another dissatisfied customer rather than a victim of fraud and you can probably wave byebye to getting your money back.

edit:- I think Pontoneer and I are saying the same thing here?

 

[GH421]

As the car wasn't fit for sale ask for money back in writing and get trading standards and your solicitor involved.

The MOT certificate will be questioned and get ready to take them to court. You'll win the case as the MOT says its a pass when blatantly its not.

Hopefully they will get sent to Guantanamo Bay.

 

[SilverSaloon]

OK, latest update; thanks for help so far.

i've phoned VOSA and they say i can contact them to get the car specially inspected at an MOT station up to 28 days after the MOT assuming its not been in an accident etc etc. this will proove the car to be unroadworthy and get a fail certificate. this in turn will result in disaplinary action against the MOT station who passed it, but only thing it will give me is more clout for a refund.

wife is about to phone the garage (she is still 300mls away with family & i am home) and ask for a refund. they have been moaning (due to work we wanted fixed on it (new key & dash trim) that they are at their limit of profit anyway and no doubt the suspension issue wont of pleased them.... so we are hoping they will be keen to call it quits and just take it back.

we are goig to get it towed to our house and then tell the garage they can collect it once the refund is made. or we can go ahead with the VOSA inspection.

i agree that handing the car back to the garage could make it hard for us as they will then have the car & keys etc. we havnt recieved back the V5 yet in our name.

 

[pos.k]

we havnt recieved back the V5 yet in our name.

BUt they have sent off the papers to have it registered in your name?
Is the vehicle newly taxed for you or was it existing tax - because they may also have used a ropey MOT to tax the car. When you're in a hole.....

Good luck.

 

[SilverSaloon]

BUt they have sent off the papers to have it registered in your name?
Is the vehicle newly taxed for you or was it existing tax - because they may also have used a ropey MOT to tax the car. When you're in a hole.....

Good luck.

car had 6 months tax already on it when we got it..... i assume they have sent papers off - but dont know - i have the new keeper suppliment & all other documentation for the car.

 

[tim.100]

If you padi by Visa debit card it may be worth asking your bank about getting the payment returned when they have the car. Not sure how it works but I have heard that Visa apply some of the credit card rules to the debit card.
QUOTE]

I would intuitively think that the Consumer Credit Act, which places the clawback obligation on credit card issuers, wouldn't apply to debit cards.

The approaches to VOSA & Trading Standards make good sense to me.

My local MB specialist gave evidence against an MOT station that had passed a dodgy car (C124) that was sold on thereafter. The evidence was used to obtain a significant settlement in favour of the car's buyer.

 

[Chattonmill]

It is a little known fact that the claw back is valid for Debit cards too, this is one reason that we did not go for a card machine with our business.

 

[nick mercedes]

It is a little known fact that the claw back is valid for Debit cards too, this is one reason that we did not go for a card machine with our business.

But only Visa debit cards?

And only in very few cases?

 

[SilverSaloon]

assuming the garage says ok to a refund (currently not answering phone - will try on another phone number soon or visit personally at lunchtime (big guys though ) do you reckon its reasonable for me to insist they collect the car from my house AFTER the refund is given.

i'm concerned (due to general attitude from them and so much bad condition of car) about giving them the car or access to the car before a refund is made, but understand that they may want to inspect it themselves 1st. i guess i can insist i stay with the car all the time its inspected.... i dont see why i sould drive it 40 miles to their garage though in that condition.....

 

[Rory]

It is a little known fact that the claw back is valid for Debit cards too, this is one reason that we did not go for a card machine with our business.

For customers, Visa Debit cards are much easier to chargeback than others. Visa Debit has the same sort of protection as credit cards do. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/working_lunch/7347146.stm

To the OP, unless the dealer is an idiot, I would think he'll be keen to get out of this as cleanly as possible and just return your money. You can tell him an experienced Alfa mechanic has condemned the car and you've spoken to VOSA about getting the MOT reviewed. You probably won't have to actually get any of those things done, they'll likely just cave in.