disaster with Alfa purchase!
- Thread starter SilverSaloon
- Start date
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grober
MB Master
Look lets not mince words here - you are dealing with crooks-plain and simple- don't trust anything they say- they sold you a dangerous unroadworthy car- take every precaution necessary including any refund mechanism.
nick mercedes
MB Enthusiast
It might be better to approach the garage with a more conciliatory tone, just to speed up any repairs or refund, rather than rushing in and using words like chargeback or crooks.
Better to keep them sweet than to upset them...
Yeah .. personally i would be nice with them but in the background have everything ready for the 3,2,1 whistle to come down on them like a tonne of bricks...
I would at least contact the bank card issuer and start to get the wheels in motion on the chargeback.
I would also arrange for an inspection regardless of whether they will refund as an insurance policy you can keep hold of.
I would at least contact the bank card issuer and start to get the wheels in motion on the chargeback.
I would also arrange for an inspection regardless of whether they will refund as an insurance policy you can keep hold of.
flango
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
OK Have consulted SWMBO who advises the following
We are assuming we are talking about a Scottish dealer and as such comes under Scottish law which puts a different slant on things to your rights South of the Border.
Firstly stop using the car Immediately
Write to the garage by registered mail stating the faults
Get the car independently inspected (if this ends up in court this will be the crux of your defence) You need to prove the car was not fit for purpose or of merchantable quality at the time of sale.
Take up the offer from VOSA Immediately they will take action against the MOT station and this will bolster your defence.
In the majority of Scotland dealers have to be registered and issued with a licence this is controlled by trading standards, its worth checking if such a system exists in the area you bought the car as for major unroadworthy cars TS will withdraw the dealers license.
I'm afraid getting a refund is not clear cut it depends how the dealer handles it, if he has any sense then he will refund you in full or repair the car to a satisfactory standard.
If this ends up in court be very meticulous on your documentation, independent report plenty of photographs etc. Below are 2 reasons given by judges/magistrates in court as to why prosecutions of car dealers fail.
" A secondhand vehicle can be classed as satisfactory quality even if it has faults and is not perfect due to the very nature of it being previously used"
" An MOT certificate is no guarantee of the roadworthiness of a vehicle, nor does it imply that the vehicle is fit for purpose"
I find that absolutely amazing but thats how the law sometimes views it.
Whatever you do with the dealer do it in writing, make notes of every telephone call you or your wife have with them. Armed with the Independent report and the VOSA report I think you have the dealer bang to rights and they would be foolish to take it further and should comply with your requests.
I wish you well but this may be hard yards.
We are assuming we are talking about a Scottish dealer and as such comes under Scottish law which puts a different slant on things to your rights South of the Border.
Firstly stop using the car Immediately
Write to the garage by registered mail stating the faults
Get the car independently inspected (if this ends up in court this will be the crux of your defence) You need to prove the car was not fit for purpose or of merchantable quality at the time of sale.
Take up the offer from VOSA Immediately they will take action against the MOT station and this will bolster your defence.
In the majority of Scotland dealers have to be registered and issued with a licence this is controlled by trading standards, its worth checking if such a system exists in the area you bought the car as for major unroadworthy cars TS will withdraw the dealers license.
I'm afraid getting a refund is not clear cut it depends how the dealer handles it, if he has any sense then he will refund you in full or repair the car to a satisfactory standard.
If this ends up in court be very meticulous on your documentation, independent report plenty of photographs etc. Below are 2 reasons given by judges/magistrates in court as to why prosecutions of car dealers fail.
" A secondhand vehicle can be classed as satisfactory quality even if it has faults and is not perfect due to the very nature of it being previously used"
" An MOT certificate is no guarantee of the roadworthiness of a vehicle, nor does it imply that the vehicle is fit for purpose"
I find that absolutely amazing but thats how the law sometimes views it.
Whatever you do with the dealer do it in writing, make notes of every telephone call you or your wife have with them. Armed with the Independent report and the VOSA report I think you have the dealer bang to rights and they would be foolish to take it further and should comply with your requests.
I wish you well but this may be hard yards.
OP
OP
SilverSaloon
MB Enthusiast
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- Mar 16, 2004
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- 1994 W124 E300D Estate, 1985 R107 280SL
ok - garage has said that they want to see/inspect it before a refund is given. We have stated that we are rejecting the car and want a full refund - he says if its unroadworthy then they will give us one, but initially wanted the car back to fix/look at the faults. we dont want the car anymore as we've lost confidence completely in its safety & not interested in any repair work done by them. (work i suspect that would be done by the MOT station who MOT'd it 
)
They have asked us to go to see them to discuss further instead of telephone calls etc. OK, I've told them i'm confirming all this in writing and when we visit we want a refund; simple as, no refund then we will proceed via VOSA and trading standards. the day we go to visit them in my opinion is their chance to take it back as-is otherwise we will hold onto it & get it AA inspected, contact VOSA, trading standards and solicitor to pursue.
car is going on our driveway and wont be moved (mileage logged with AA guy deemed unroadworthy) until they come to collect the car, which will only happen once the refund is in my bank.
)They have asked us to go to see them to discuss further instead of telephone calls etc. OK, I've told them i'm confirming all this in writing and when we visit we want a refund; simple as, no refund then we will proceed via VOSA and trading standards. the day we go to visit them in my opinion is their chance to take it back as-is otherwise we will hold onto it & get it AA inspected, contact VOSA, trading standards and solicitor to pursue.
car is going on our driveway and wont be moved (mileage logged with AA guy deemed unroadworthy) until they come to collect the car, which will only happen once the refund is in my bank.
flango
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Good course of action jaw jaw is always better than war war
grober
MB Master
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression here. I was not advocating Silver Saloon goes in with all guns blazing that's usually counter productive as you say.
I was just saying to be very careful. In my experience "negotiating" with untrustworthy people is likely to get you nowhere fast. I would imagine if they sell dodgy cars this is almost a daily occurrence for them and Silver Saloon will probably have to be prepared to take this "to the wire" to get a refund.
I was not advocating Silver Saloon goes in with all guns blazing that's usually counter productive as you say. I was just saying to be very careful. In my experience "negotiating" with untrustworthy people is likely to get you nowhere fast. I would imagine if they sell dodgy cars this is almost a daily occurrence for them and Silver Saloon will probably have to be prepared to take this "to the wire" to get a refund.
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OP
OP
SilverSaloon
MB Enthusiast
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- 1994 W124 E300D Estate, 1985 R107 280SL
i would get the car inspected now but when its still a possibility to just get an easy refund with threat & promise of VOSA/tradaing standards etc i think its an easier route. but when we visit them in person it will simply be a refund or else approach. we are not interested in their fixes - they had the chance to supply a safe car when we initially purchased. if it was just the suspension, sure, they could fix - wife loveD the car - now she dreads to think what could of happened as she drove it 300 miles at 70mph with our 2 kids in the back. she is really upset with it all... atleast we still have the picasso. looks like we are stuck with it forever but atleast its safe!
AA guy also said that the two rear tyres are all cracked inside the tread and was amazed they hadnt blown out on the long journey. i believe its on a low loader due to this rather than a tow.
i'm kicking myself for not checking over it more - i checked all the usual things & more but since it was getting a fresh MOT (it had about 4 months left on the old one aswell) i assumed those sort of things would be fine or be fixed. A lesson learnt there then!!
p.s. 204,000 mile W124 comes to the rescue again.
but atleast its safe!AA guy also said that the two rear tyres are all cracked inside the tread and was amazed they hadnt blown out on the long journey. i believe its on a low loader due to this rather than a tow.
i'm kicking myself for not checking over it more - i checked all the usual things & more but since it was getting a fresh MOT (it had about 4 months left on the old one aswell) i assumed those sort of things would be fine or be fixed. A lesson learnt there then!!
p.s. 204,000 mile W124 comes to the rescue again.
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It is worth touching base with trading standards anyway : they may well have a 'casebook' full of other complaints about this dealer if he is as dodgy as it sounds on here .
Can't help wondering if it is a certain used car trader on the Fife coast (Arfur Daley type character , right down to the sheepskin coat) who has come to the attention of the media in the past ....... one , I have to admit , I bought my 300TE from and , noting the usual wear to the outside edges of the front tyres asked for them to be replaced , which was readily agreed to ; when I picked the car up a couple of days later all seemed well - it was only a couple of months later I discovered the front tyres had been refitted to the rear wheels with the worn portions on the inside where they couldn't be seen !!!!! The car was otherwise OK so I put it down to experience and just bought two new tyres . Obviously neither of us can name names on here .
Can't help wondering if it is a certain used car trader on the Fife coast (Arfur Daley type character , right down to the sheepskin coat) who has come to the attention of the media in the past ....... one , I have to admit , I bought my 300TE from and , noting the usual wear to the outside edges of the front tyres asked for them to be replaced , which was readily agreed to ; when I picked the car up a couple of days later all seemed well - it was only a couple of months later I discovered the front tyres had been refitted to the rear wheels with the worn portions on the inside where they couldn't be seen !!!!! The car was otherwise OK so I put it down to experience and just bought two new tyres . Obviously neither of us can name names on here .
OP
OP
SilverSaloon
MB Enthusiast
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- 1994 W124 E300D Estate, 1985 R107 280SL
tried that and failed
trying to comfort upset wife 300 miles away i said we will get it sorted and find another car similar (she loved the car) - she just wants to keep the picasso now...... i'm sure that after we have our refund we can start looking again for a similar car.
never been stung before and i've bought a fair few cars in my time and been lucky up to now - every single car purchased has been excellent, up to this one
Druk
Gone but not forgotten - RIP
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every single car purchased has been excellent, up to this one
What? Even the 107?
OP
OP
SilverSaloon
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- 1994 W124 E300D Estate, 1985 R107 280SL
What? Even the 107?
yeah - it still doesnt owe me much - still a good price for its condition IMO. it was purchased with work in mind (ok, not as much as i know know it needed/still needs, but its only my own time so i've spent £0 on labour). i'd struggle to find one in this condition it is in now for the amount its cost me so far..... apart from probably the £6k 300 over on "the club". why he didnt just buy it is beyond me!
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thefair1973
Active Member
sorry to hear about this nightmare SilverSaloon and I hope you get it resolved soon. In a twisted sort of way, it's making me really glad that I went for an ML270 instead of an Alfa 159 Sportswagon, evenn though the ML is 4 years older than the Alfa I would've bought. There was always this niggling thought of the Alfa unreliability in the back of my mind. I just hope the ML proves to be a lot more reliable.
rf065
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I bought a 3 year old Lancia from a small garage in Glasgow which over the course of the first few weeks occasionally refused to start.
The garage had a few attempts at fixing it under their warranty, but it soon became apparent they knew nothing about Lancia's or engine electronics. This resulted in them washing their hands of the problem & refusing to return my calls etc.
As I was a member of the RAC I phoned them for legal advice, they helped me draft up a letter stating I was rejecting the car as it was not fit for purpose. Sent that recorded delivery and next day the garage phoned and arranged for a Lancia dealer to pick the car up & repair it.
Good legal advice & documented evidence will get you the result you want, eventually.
Russ
The garage had a few attempts at fixing it under their warranty, but it soon became apparent they knew nothing about Lancia's or engine electronics. This resulted in them washing their hands of the problem & refusing to return my calls etc.
As I was a member of the RAC I phoned them for legal advice, they helped me draft up a letter stating I was rejecting the car as it was not fit for purpose. Sent that recorded delivery and next day the garage phoned and arranged for a Lancia dealer to pick the car up & repair it.
Good legal advice & documented evidence will get you the result you want, eventually.
Russ
Vlad
MB Enthusiast
If the garage had any brains they would buy the car back, no questions asked and put it down to experience.
If you get no where, just tell them that you are getting VOSA to do a check on the car and that depending on the outcome (ie it fails big time) that you will then be contacting your local Trading Standards who will be all over this like a rash and believe me they do!
If that doesn't shake the guy into giving you a full refund, he deserves all thats coming his way.
Here's another tip for you......did the car come with a stamped service history book....if so, go back through the stamps and phone the garages who serviced it and find out whether the service history is genuine. If the garage selling the car sold the car with FULL service history and it turns out that a couple of the stamps can't be accounted for they have contravened the Sales of Goods Act and again Trading Standards will be all over them
If you get no where, just tell them that you are getting VOSA to do a check on the car and that depending on the outcome (ie it fails big time) that you will then be contacting your local Trading Standards who will be all over this like a rash and believe me they do!
If that doesn't shake the guy into giving you a full refund, he deserves all thats coming his way.
Here's another tip for you......did the car come with a stamped service history book....if so, go back through the stamps and phone the garages who serviced it and find out whether the service history is genuine. If the garage selling the car sold the car with FULL service history and it turns out that a couple of the stamps can't be accounted for they have contravened the Sales of Goods Act and again Trading Standards will be all over them
OP
OP
SilverSaloon
MB Enthusiast
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- 1994 W124 E300D Estate, 1985 R107 280SL
car was a company car prior to its previous owner and i have a printout provided to the previous owner from the company - outlines everything spent on the car in vast detail - very good but no stamps in the service book but oil changes, services etc all done by main dealers according to the printout - no reason to believe its not genuine. gap of about 15k before garage who sold it to me got it (previous owner didnt service it or record it apparently). garage has replaced oil, changed filters, discs & pads and i have reciepts - all checks out with new oil on dipstick and discs & pads look new. car wasnt advertised with FSH.
will keep you updated.
just aswell we havnt got round to selling the picasso yet.
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crockers
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Hmmm ...don't you have have to take wheels off to change discs and pads? Wouldn't they have noticed the cracks in the inside walls? Or was this just the fronts they changed?
OP
OP
SilverSaloon
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just the fronts, but then surely they would of noticed that both the wheels had severe play on the arms.
i was truly shocked - you can literally hold the upper suspension arm with your hand and move it side by side (as it moves where the rubber mounts are bad) and the wheel moves by about 5 cm from 12 o clock to 6 o clock.
