Done for speeding by mobile camera

[nickwilcock]

If you're single, drive a sports car, slow down as you go past a school in case one of the ill-disciplined little sods runs out in front of you, some stupid huggy-fluffy will probably report you as a suspected paedophile....

Nope, 30 past any school. The little buggers should be taught to stay off the road. Period.

 

[richard]

so enforcing the law sucks?

Of course it doesnt.

But
(a) allowing speed limits to be set by councils sucks - why ? because the nosey parker councillors have no qualifications to set them appropriately - they should be set by a central body with expertise in traffic management, risk etc

(b) enforcing certain laws with vigour AND without discretion and others not at all - and that focus being on ones that are easy to raise money - stinks.

(c) In many places using civilians to enforce the law, rather than law enforcement officers is equally bad

I live in Ascot, where public transport does not work - without a car my journey to work takes about 1:45 - with a car, about 45 - and its cheaper to use the car. Net result is I drive a lot of miles and need my licence. So any automated enforcement of minor transgressions of the law which could affect my liveleyhood is unwelcome - especially when in the last 2-3 years we've been affected by various low (and not so low) level crime.

In reality the thing that irks me most is the automated, discretionless, nature of speed cameras, and that its pretty obvious that they are used for revenue raising - Otherwise they would have them outside all schools.

[end of rant]

R

 

[Parrot of Doom]

I've posted about a zillion times on various forums about all this, and I really can't be bothered.

Save to recommend people visit the following sites (with forums):

www.safespeed.org.uk
www.pepipoo.com

 

[GregE240]

Ditto. People are welcome to their opinions. I'm fed up with trying to debate with people like Andy_K. Mate, you can think what you like, but it annoys me.

 

[andy_k]

it annoys me that some people think that once they get in a car then it's ok to break the law because they won't get caught. The shear scale of the problem means that no police force could effectively control it properly so automated traffic policing is inevitable.

It's one area of policing that is simple, the limits are there, they are set in law mandatory and not to be applied in some random manner.

Richard, outside of London public transport doesn't work anywhere (it hasn't since it was de-regulated) yet millions of people manage to get to and from work without losing their licences so what is the problem.

Stay UNDER the speed limits and cameras don't affect you - it really is that simple

Andy

 

[GregE240]

Andy, what gets on my tits mate is the utter lack of discretion.

2 situations for you as an example:

1) When I got the SL, I took a work colleague out in it, and its fair to say I gave it a bit of schnell. I thought I was in a 40 limit, but as it turned out, I was in a 30. I got pulled by 2 Trafpol, and once they'd complemented me on my car (via the PNC they knew I'd not had it long), they asked me how fast I'd been travelling. I told them that at no time did I exceed 45mph. They told me that the limit was 30, although the signage wasn't too good. I apologised, and after a little more banter, went on my way.

2) Last December I was flashed by a camera van outside of a local village for doing 36mph in a 30 limit. I was less than 50m from where the limit changes from 30 to NSL, so it effectively doubles.

Notice in the second situation the UTTER lack of discretion. I got a fixed penalty, £60, and my licence endorsed. In the first, I had a good chat with 2 police officers who were clearly car enthusiasts. They also noted that I (at the time) had no points on my licence.

The sooner these cameras are removed, the better. They don't prevent accidents, and cause people to concentrate on their speedometer than the prevailing road conditions. Not only that, they have effectively made criminals out of thousands of the population for minor infringements.

As for comparing speeding with burglary - well, thats a cheap shot and you know it.

Until late last year, I had held a clean licence for 18 years. Its a bit rich of you to compare me to a common thief for my 6mph, I think.

 

[dagd]

"Stay UNDER the speed limits and cameras don't affect you - it really is that simple

Andy"

Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone!

 

[BTB 500]

(c) In many places using civilians to enforce the law, rather than law enforcement officers is equally bad

Speaking of which. Anybody know exact details of how the "Community Speedwatch" schemes springing up all over the place work? Some friends of mine are involved in one, and insist their reports can directly result in a ticket. However local residents noting down registrations with a pen & paper seems a bit dubious, and I doubt their RADAR (or laser?) guns are routinely checked/calibrated as I think police ones need to be.

The wording I've seen is (of course) pretty vague e.g.

The volunteers work in pairs at an identified location selected by local communities in consultation with Surrey Police, provided they are within 30 mph and 40 mph limits. They record speeds of motorists in a log and offenders travelling at excess speeds will be identified from the data provided and sent a ‘yellow’ letter of advice which will also ask for their co-operation in the future.

A maximum of two warning letters, along with safety information, will be sent to offenders and if they are caught speeding again, they will be targeted for enforcement by police, where appropriate.

http://www.surrey.police.uk/news_item.asp?artid=6753

I read this that the police would come out themselves and attempt to catch a persistent offender using noted location/time/registration, rather than issuing a ticket based solely on evidence from the community people.

 

[andy_k]

"Stay UNDER the speed limits and cameras don't affect you - it really is that simple

Andy"

Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone!

nope, let those who have been caught not expect some sort of special treatment or claim they have been persecuted.

There are many laws in this country I disagree with and I will get involved at whatever level to get them changed but I don't go around breaking them just because I can as that proves nothing.

We've all got away with very little enforcement of speed limits for years and have got used to driving at the speeds we think are right. That doesn't mean they it is right as the law quite clearly says it isn't. The law isn't all grey and fuzzy as we'd all like it's exact. How it is applied is sometimes flexible but maybe the cameras approach is what we can expect more and more of.

By the standards of driving we see on todays roads then quite frankly I'm quite happy that there are plenty of 30mph limts

Andy

 

[Flasheart]

Another victim of this spineless, faceless indirect taxation thats become a cancer on the law abiding majority in this country, more like.

Its the same with Shoplifting you know..... they get taxed as well when they appear in front of the beak, or is that a fine?

By making it out to be a tax then you try and make it seem unjust. Its not unjust - you just object to the way the law is implemented.

What about Drink Drivers..... in the same vein that some would like the road conditions/time/carriageway/traffic about etc to be taken into account. Surely this should be the same for Drink Drivers. If a drink driver is driving home late at night, nothing else on the road, nice wide dual carriageway so plenty of swerve/meander room.

What is wrong with an absolute - you are over the speed limit - you break the law.

You drink too much - you are over the limit - you break the law.

The fact is speeding does not make you an urban revolutionary outlaw with all the cool factor that goes with it..... no it means you can't control your vehicle below a pescribed limit. People managed to do it during their driving test.... so why can't they do it now?

 

[GregE240]

I just think its hilarious that I got caught with no discretion for being 6mph in excess of the speed limit, and yet we all drive on motorways far in excess of 70mph.

Or is Andy an inside lane at 70mph merchant?

 

[GregE240]

What is wrong with an absolute - you are over the speed limit - you break the law.

Get real.

Please - get real.

 

[andy_k]

People managed to do it during their driving test.... so why can't they do it now?

yep and most of them can miraculously do it when they see the speed cameras as well - funny that.

Andy

 

[andy_k]

Get real.

Please - get real.

but he was right, exceeding the speed limit is against the law. No matter how you look at it it is illegal. 30mph means 30 mph not roughly 30 or a bit more when it's dark and what you like after midnight and on sundays

I remember when the breathalyser was first brought in ( I was still a kid) but it was treated in the same way as cameras are now. If you got caught it was seen as unlucky, unfair, not very British etc etc by other motorists . The whole system was totally wrong, to have some machine (well little tube of glass crystals) decide whether or not you were fit to drive rather than you making the judgment depending on whether you could stand up long enough to put the keys in the lock or identify your car from the shifting blur that was the car park of the pub.

Nowadays if anyone gets caught drink driving the reaction is totally different. It's seen as unnaceptable and everyone expects the driver to be severely punished.

How long before the tide shifts on speeding?

I've said this before and I'll say it again, the reasons the cameras are there is because they do make the roads safer and they do make money, lots of it, all paid by people who have broken the law. If nobody broke the speed limits (it really is quite easy - but if you find it difficult all you need to do is drive like there's a police car behind you ) for a month then the cameras would be redundant. They would be costing money rather than earning it and they would soon dissappear but whilst there are people daft enough to drive past big yellow boxes on poles at the side of the road faster than they are supposed to they will remain. Novel idea huh? Civil obedience to get results

Tax? Not really.
Fair? Absolutely

Andy

 

[dagd]

nope, let those who have been caught not expect some sort of special treatment or claim they have been persecuted.

Andy

I agree! But that's not what I was refering to, I've been driving for over 30 years and never had a speeding fine! I think is a combination of luck, experience and knowledge. Yet I freely admit that there is the odd occasion when my speed creeps up to or just over the limit. I'm not condoning it, I'm saying that it happens from time to time.

I'm also in favour of variable speed limits in built up areas and outside schools. The problem with speed camaras is that there is no discretion (though it could be possible to programme this in). Last year, my son was caught doing 34 in a 30 mile an hour limit, good I hear you say, serves his right! However, he was driving on the A30 in Sunningdale at 2:30 in the morning when he was caught, not a schoolchild or OAP (or anything else for that matter) in sight! I'm sure other would have done the same. In fact, I know one of our local chuch ministers have been caught by the same camara, also late a night!

I'm fortunate and have a speed limiter and cruse control on my last two cars, these have saved me on several occasions in the last couple of years, especially in road works. It's just a matter of time for me

 

[GregE240]

We're all going to have to agree to disagree on this one, or we'll be debating it for some time.

My opinions on this are clearly at odds with others on this forum and I'm going to leave it at that.

 

[Flasheart]

Get real.

Please - get real.

Greg sorry confused here - are you saying that i am wrong when i put that if one speeds one is breaking the law?

Its a simple yes or no question.

 

[Flasheart]

We're all going to have to agree to disagree on this one, or we'll be debating it for some time.

My opinions on this are clearly at odds with others on this forum and I'm going to leave it at that.

Actually Greg you will find that you are far from at odds with the majority on this BBS who indeed believe they have the right to drive at whatever speed they like. It always brings up an internal video in my brain of Toad of Toad Hall and his driving, along with a character from a Harry Enfield sketch paraphrased but saying:- I am a considerably better driver than yow.

 

[prprandall51]

Almost all mobile speed traps are set up in 30's and 40's. With very few exceptions, a 30mph area is fully built up and, if not, is always adjacent to a bulit-up area. Approaching a 40 is always an indication of an urban area or the outer approach to one. If you are speeding in a 30 or a 40 area, you are, almost without exception, driving past people's homes with the inherent dangers of children, the elderly or pets or other vehicles performing slow, hazardous manouevres. That's why they are 30/40mph zones.

If the whole country was a blanket 30 on single carriageway roads, I would agree with the claims being made regarding revenue raising, but this is a safety issue. Please note that I think that many fixed camera sites are revenue raisers, though (if they are outside the 30 or 40 limits).

People mostly like being stopped by "real coppers" because there is a chance to blag their way out of the problem - not because they appreciate the "friendly word of advice" and the policman's discretion. In my yoof, I was often stopped by coppers (the good old days before cameras) and as soon as we had had our friendly chat and I had tucked maybe 5 miles of contrite look-at-me, goody-two-shoes driving under my belt I was off harry flatters again - most people are, let's be honest.

Driving is about being sensible but it is also about following rules. If you can't drive at thiry in a thirty then not only are you showing an inability to do something really rather simple to do, but you are showing a blatent contempt for the lives and the wellbeing of others.

And as for the "it is dangerous to brake" argument, well why not disconnect the pedal and be a really safe driver.

Philip

 

[HughJarse]

We don't have any in our county, None, zilch nada........ the ex chief of police didnt belive that there were any accident balckspots that warranted them so we have none. We do have mobile ones and rozzers with speed guns though.

So for all you southern softies, move to County Durham.