Dvla issues

[219]

Well here is my thinking on this:

1. It would seem beyond dispute that both you and the DVLA accept that the winning bid came from your device.

2. An auction bid is a legally binding contract.

3. If the DVLA refuse to back down on the contract (and they do not have to) then you will end up in court and will lose. Unless you can prove or demonstrate good reason why the contract should not be enforced. It does appear from the DVLA response that they believe that your bid was placed to stop another bidder from winning the auction? Why would they think this?

Your only option(s) are:

1) Tell them you will see them in court and hope that they back down.

2) Pay up and sell the plate on or keep it for your own use.

The courts can only rule on facts and not what is fair or not fair. Sad but true.

FYI: I went through the same process with a bidder on ebay who won a set of wheels from my auction. Having done so he then attempted to retract his winning bid stating that he didn't know that the wheels were black. This despite multiple photos and a description stating "BLACK". A check on his feedback showed he had a history of retracting winning bids. He now owns a set of BLACK wheels.

Bruce , while much of the above is true , if you read the DVLA manager's response to the OP "Therefore, had an error been made you would have had the opportunity to call and advise us."

According to the very first post in this thread that is exactly what the OP tried to do . Instead , the call handler , again according to the OP , shouted down the telephone at him ( unprofessional conduct ) and refused to listen to what he was saying . These calls are generally recorded , so the OP needs again to ask the manager to listen to the recording , backing everything up in writing , and citing the call recording as evidence should it come to court .

At the end of the day , the OP acknowledged there has been an error , which may have been his or may have been DVLA's ( his admission ) ; DVLA imply in their response above that if he had called to point out the error they could have sorted it out ; he claims to have tried to do just this , has escalated it to management .

I think I can see who is being fair and reasonable and who is being obstreperous and unreasonable - so , I imagine , would a Sheriff sitting on the bench .

There have been numerous publicised cases of DVLA trying to run roughshod over individuals regarding non declaration of SORN , and being sent home with their tails between their legs thanks to 'little people' who had a better understanding of the law than they did .

Courts don't like government agencies bullying private citizens .

 

[oldguy57]

Yes a letter is much better as a complaining tool than either email or telephone call. Address it to ceo and send recorded marked complaint. One thing though simply set out the facts no slagging off. A VERY important point I would raise as well is that the accusations in the earlier email are libellous and clearly sent by someone who absolutely doesnt know what they are doing. If you are certain that you are correct in your assertions do not be bullied _ the default stance taken by most large organisations is to fob you off and then try to bully. I personally have had many payments from companies trying it on when they were completely and utterly in the wrong. (all went to charity) Above only applies if you are sure you are in the right but good luck.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

"The final decision is with DVLA"

Why, in their replies, do they seem to refer to themselves in the third person?

 

[MD5]

"The final decision is with DVLA"

Why, in their replies, do they seem to refer to themselves in the third person?

It sounds to me as if the auctions have been carried out by a third party auctioneer on behalf of the DVLA - I don't know if this is the way DVLA auctions work? If so, it may explain the over zealous attitude.

 

[artyman]

It might be worth having a word with Watchdog, they may have records of similar occurrences.

 

[kianok]

I don't know if this is the way DVLA auctions work? If so, it may explain the over zealous attitude.

I think SMA have the contract to sell plates via auction.

 

[kianok]

However, having checked with them earlier they have confirmed that they will not cancel one they will cancel both and at that time you would be prohibited from bidding in future auctions.

problem solved!

Just get someone else to buy if for you and then transfer the entitlement to you.

 

[-Ian]

problem solved!

Just get someone else to buy if for you and then transfer the entitlement to you.

How can somebody else buy it if it is not for sale as the OP already won the auction ?

 

[Was1]

Right this ccj thing is scaring me as I have never ever had a ccj or any bad credit against my name. Does this automatically go on my name if I don't purchase??

 

[kianok]

How can somebody else buy it if it is not for sale as the OP already won the auction ?

The OP has said that the DVLA will cancel the purchase of both plates so I therefor assume that it will become available again.

 

[Spin_bowler]

Right this ccj thing is scaring me as I have never ever had a ccj or any bad credit against my name. Does this automatically go on my name if I don't purchase??

No, not without a court finding against you. That's what a County Court Judgement means. It's very much a late stage in a process, you'll have lots of correspondence from the auctioneers, debt recovery agents etc before you get to that point.

The risk in the meantime is that whilst they continue to play hardball they start loading heavy admin fees on to what they deem they're owed.

 

[219]

"The final decision is with DVLA"

Why, in their replies, do they seem to refer to themselves in the third person?

In any case , the final decision is with the court .

 

[219]

Oh , and if not sure or confident of your position - speak to a lawyer .

 

[Giantvanman]

….and the costs, aggravation and risks keep mounting.

The planned bid placed (for the most desirable plate) on the OP's machine went through successfully and happened to win the auction.

An erroneous bid on a less desirable fall-back plate has somehow manifested itself and gone through successfully and happens to win the auction.

No offence OP, the mistake originates with you and it is a mistake that you ought to pay for…you would not be the first person to not want to buy a item they won on an auction site and the DVLA, much like an earlier poster, is not the first 'person' who decided rules were rules and winning bids should settle their accounts.

As unpalatable as it may be, £680 is a lot of money for a mistake BUT it can be recovered wholly or partly by re-selling the plate.

Lawyers, legal fees etc etc will be considerably more AND you would be gambling on not paying the £680 but incurring other costs in a pointless exercise because with all said and done, the bid did originate from your machine.

Apologies if this appears blunt.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

….and the costs, aggravation and risks keep mounting.

The planned bid placed (for the most desirable plate) on the OP's machine went through successfully and happened to win the auction.

An erroneous bid on a less desirable fall-back plate has somehow manifested itself and gone through successfully and happens to win the auction.

No offence OP, the mistake originates with you and it is a mistake that you ought to pay for…you would not be the first person to not want to buy a item they won on an auction site and the DVLA, much like an earlier poster, is not the first 'person' who decided rules were rules and winning bids should settle their accounts.

As unpalatable as it may be, £680 is a lot of money for a mistake BUT it can be recovered wholly or partly by re-selling the plate.

Lawyers, legal fees etc etc will be considerably more AND you would be gambling on not paying the £680 but incurring other costs in a pointless exercise because with all said and done, the bid did originate from your machine.

Apologies if this appears blunt.

Blunt but logical.

 

[oldguy57]

The above is all true - once bailiffs etc get involved the costs will escalate beyond all recognition. Having read all the advice you have been given,if I was in this position and realised that I had made a mistake I would pay up just to avoid all the potential hassle.This will get all the threats of legal action off your back . You can then put in your letter of complaint requesting a refund and setting out the reasons why., the libellous email sent to you should not go unchallenged. DVLA had absolutely no right, none whatsoever , to make an allegation of that type and to put it in writing means that they have shot themseles in both feet. Libel can mean damages if you can prove loss has resulted and being excluded from DVLA auction might be regarded as a loss if you are a regular. Not suggesting that you demand money from Dvla but mention of this might concentrate their minds a touch.

 

[Scott_F]

According to the very first post in this thread that is exactly what the OP tried to do . Instead , the call handler , again according to the OP , shouted down the telephone at him ( unprofessional conduct ) and refused to listen to what he was saying . These calls are generally recorded , so the OP needs again to ask the manager to listen to the recording , backing everything up in writing , and citing the call recording as evidence should it come to court .

I wouldn't rely on recordings of conversations to advance my case.

From my own experience of dealing with other public sector organisations (and despite the advice that they give before you actually speak to somebody), conversations that reflect badly on them and their staff will typically be "not recorded on this occasion".

 

[219]

….and the costs, aggravation and risks keep mounting.

The planned bid placed (for the most desirable plate) on the OP's machine went through successfully and happened to win the auction.

An erroneous bid on a less desirable fall-back plate has somehow manifested itself and gone through successfully and happens to win the auction.

No offence OP, the mistake originates with you and it is a mistake that you ought to pay for…you would not be the first person to not want to buy a item they won on an auction site and the DVLA, much like an earlier poster, is not the first 'person' who decided rules were rules and winning bids should settle their accounts.

As unpalatable as it may be, £680 is a lot of money for a mistake BUT it can be recovered wholly or partly by re-selling the plate.

Lawyers, legal fees etc etc will be considerably more AND you would be gambling on not paying the £680 but incurring other costs in a pointless exercise because with all said and done, the bid did originate from your machine.

Apologies if this appears blunt.

All quite fair and reasonable .

However , the OP did post a response from the manager who suggested that if he had phoned straightaway and pointed out he had made a mistake , it could have been sorted . It seemed from his original post that he did exactly this .

The call handler seemed to take a different position , and both parties have become entrenched .

It seems that either the left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing , or someone is telling porkies .

I agree , and did suggest much earlier , that the easiest way out would be to buy both plates then resell the other one , which the OP was disinclined to do as a matter of principle . The problem here is that the perceived value of these plates might apply only to the OP , and they might have little or no value to anyone else .

There is also the aspect that the level of customer service he has received falls well below acceptable standards : he was shouted at abusively over the phone and his request ignored - allegedly ; the questionable email published earlier ; inconsistencies in responses by different staff .

A formal complaint about these aspects , directed high enough up in the organisation , might prove fruitful and yield a cancellation of the whole sorry business . I know that if I were the OP I wouldn't want any of their plates after all this .

 

[219]

I wouldn't rely on recordings of conversations to advance my case.

From my own experience of dealing with other public sector organisations, conversations that reflect badly on them and their staff will typically be "not recorded on this occasion".

Yes , I was having the same thought as I wrote that post .

 

[219]

I ready the email and focused on the last paragraph in which they state they are unable to cancel just one registration..I queried this and suggesting sacrificing my winning plate and this is the reply...

As I mentioned in my earlier email the final decision is with DVLA after we have carried out our recovery process which usually takes about six weeks.
However, having checked with them earlier they have confirmed that they will not cancel one they will cancel both and at that time you would be prohibited from bidding in future auctions.

It does sound as though cancelling the whole thing - BOTH plates - might be an option .

If the OP ever wants to buy again he would just need to get someone else to bid on his behalf .