E class Wheels on a Vito Van

[UKG]

Hi all,

Thanks for the join to the forum.

I need some advice please. I've purchased some 17 inch mercedes wheels to replace the standard steel 16 inch wheels.

I didn't know anything about wheels so did some research. The rolling radius is the same because the 17 inch alloys use narrower tyres. The bolt set up and central bore were the same so I went ahead and bought them. They are now on the van and the tyre shop guy said that they fit fine.

The tyres on there are - 235/45 ZR 17

Ive also checked the kerb weight of the E class 1760 kg vs the vito 1980 kg


My question is - is this safe? Does anyone have experience of these size tyres? I don't carry anything heavy in the van.

Any advice much appreciated. Thank you

UKG

 

[UKG]

Forgot to mention - load rating on teh new tyres is - 94 - 670 kg

 

[parksie14]

Fitting those wheels & tyres will effect your insurance in the event of a claim as neither are suitable for the van, best get em on ebay i think

 

[Giantvanman]

^ That. You would be well advised not to use them because they are not rated for the weight of the Vito. If you want other Mb ones, I believe ML ones are suitable but you would have to check.

 

[UKG]

Thanks for your replies.

Do you know where I can find the weighting detail of the alloys? I'm thinking new tyres could sort out the tyre ratings. Is that correct?

But if the alloys themselves aren't weighted correctly then thats a concern. Can I find these details for an E class alloy online do you know?

Thanks

 

[UKG]

Will these be better?

Mercedes ML W163 Alloy Wheel Set with Tyre 225 65 R16 16 Inch Alloy | eBay

 

[Howard]

Where are you based ?

I've got a 17 inch set of w163 ML wheels and tyres for sale.

They're in the classifieds ( 3 alloys , but I've since got a fourth )

Won't be available until end of July though , I'm in Hampton court.

 

[UKG]

I'm in Bristol. A bit away. Thanks though.

 

[UKG]

Coming back to my current wheel set up. Am I right in thinking that without any load they are perfectly able to take the vans weight? 1980kg total. Each wheel can take 670 kg. total - 2680kg?

Axle weight is 1440kg. But this is with a full load.

So although not as recommended by the manufacturer this set up should be safe without any load. Is this correct? Or a load up to approx 500kg?

I have a question. Are the manufacturers recommendations just that? Recommendations.

1) will these wheels fail an mot test? If the tyres are in good order.

The insurance side of it seems to be a lot of hearsay. Depending on the reason for the accident I can't see how perfectly safe wheels can be blamed. Although not as 'recommended'.

Thank you for any responses.

 

[hotrodder]

Yep, load rating is per wheel/tyre. Your 670Kg comes from the tyre load index of 94 though (standard Vito is 98 to well over 100 depending on tyre size)... dunno which E class wheels you have but FWIW a 17 x 7.5J AMG monoblock ll wheel has a load rating of 615kg. Occasionally, but not always this info is cast into the back of the wheel along with various other info like who made it (Austria Alu-Guss / Borbet in this case), size, ET/offset etc

Manufacturers spec things like tyre & wheel load ratings based on the max axle weights. While you may never carry anything heavy the kerb weight isn't evenly distributed over each wheel i.e. the unladen front axle weight isn't half the kerb weight...

It won't fail an MOT as things like checking tyre speed & load ratings only applies to class 5 and 7 MOTs. That doesn't mean anything as it's entirely possible to pass an MOT with a vehicle that doesn't meet construction & use regulations i.e. the MOT is not proof of roadworthyness, back when we got a certificate instead of a receipt it even said so on the back of the thing

Insurance companies don't have to blame underspecced wheels/tyres. When you took out the policy you entered into a contract of utmost good faith. If you haven't told them about the alloy wheels you fitted or lied about them being suitable for a van you are in breach of that contract. The bit that's hearsay is all the stuff you hear about them refusing to pay out... while they can void the comprehensive side easily they're legally bound to pay out for third party losses by the Road Traffic Act. If they think they have a case that won't stop them from using the courts to recover their loses or seeking article 75 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTA_Insurer Undisclosed drink driving conviction is the example used in the link, a set of car wheels which don't meet the manufacturers min specification for a van... i'm a fabricator and welder not a lawyer but phrases like 'undisclosed and potentially dangerous modifications' come to mind
Whether they go to those extremes or punish you by bending you over/refusing cover in the future depends on how much they're out of pocket i.e. did this all to come to light after a minor bump or is one of the third parties gonna need round the clock care for the rest of their life

 

[scgfull]

^ Agreed, when sizing wheels Maximum allowable loads are those that should be sized against. You should be looking at the loading plate to assess what the maximum Gross Vehicle weight is along with the maximum loading per axle.

This will help more than taking unloaded weights into account.

Steve

 

[BTB 500]

Agree with the above. Btw van insurers can be less tolerant than car ones when it comes to non-standard wheels etc.

 

[UKG]

Hi all, not sure if this is useful to anyone. I've discussed the wheels with my insurance company AVIVA. They said it wouldn't effect my cover so long as it passes the the MOT.

 

[jimfred]

I would be very careful, seems like your going ahead regardless of the advice above.
A spot check by the DVSA may well prove expensive. Whether your using it for business or not its still a commercial vehicle and if the DVSA find something wrong there is no getting away with it.
At the end of the day its your choice, but hopefully a wheel wont break as you go around a corner then you wipe some innocent person out, get some wheels on it that are up to the job.

 

[parksie14]

What Jim says is the only sensible approach?, why risk it?? do you like a gamble///

 

[parksie14]

Hi all, not sure if this is useful to anyone. I've discussed the wheels with my insurance company AVIVA. They said it wouldn't effect my cover so long as it passes the the MOT.

I'd ask them to put that in writing

 

[UKG]

Thank you for your responses. I really do appreciate it. To answer - no I don't like a gamble with this kind of thing however, on consideration -

1) The kerb side weight of the vito and e class are very close. The wheels and tyres are designed to carry this weight. I wont be using the van for anything heavy. If I was I wouldn't even consider it.

2) The wheels and tyres will pass the MOT so long as they are both the same on each axle. Load index and Speed rating is only applicable to class 5 and 7 vehicles.

3) My insurance company has stated in a recorded telephone conversation that so long as the van passes the MOT then the van is fully covered.

4) The wheels fit fine - lots of clearence in the arches - it drives well so there arent any offset issues.

To me this doesn't seem like much of a gamble. The recommendation in the manual is just that. It's not so much of a nanny state and we can use our judgement on this by the sound of it.

Again if I was carrying the extra tonne in the van (which it could do) I would not be using these wheels.

Again thanks all for your help. And yes I will look to get it in writting from the insurance company.

UKG

 

[UKG]

Also looking at the DVSA checks - they seem to be exclusively for commercial drivers, which I am not.

'As a commercial driver, you might be asked to stop by the police or a Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) officer. They can stop lorries, buses and coaches.'

https://www.gov.uk/roadside-vehicle-checks-for-commercial-drivers/checks-on-your-vehicle

Also, they only seem to look at vehicles more than 3.5 tonne -

Meanwhile, any van with a gross vehicle weight of more than 3.5 tonnes comes under the authority of a goods vehicle operator’s licence
, bringing with it increased regulation and costs.

I don;t think these checks would apply to me - Im not a commercial driver and my van is tiny.

 

[UKG]

Horodder - you mentioned 'i.e. the unladen front axle weight isn't half the kerb weight...'

Do you know where (if anywhere) I can find the distribution figures for when the vehicle is unloaded? I'm guessing its mainlythe engine weight that sits over the front axle. Which would be very close to the engine weight of the e class? Similar size engine.

is it 70% front - 30% back?

Or more like 60% front 40% back. This would be really helpful if you or anyone (a mechanic?) can offer any advice on this ? Thanks again

 

[scgfull]

Also looking at the DVSA checks - they seem to be exclusively for commercial drivers, which I am not.

'As a commercial driver, you might be asked to stop by the police or a Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) officer. They can stop lorries, buses and coaches.'

https://www.gov.uk/roadside-vehicle-checks-for-commercial-drivers/checks-on-your-vehicle

Also, they only seem to look at vehicles more than 3.5 tonne -

Meanwhile, any van with a gross vehicle weight of more than 3.5 tonnes comes under the authority of a goods vehicle operator’s licence
, bringing with it increased regulation and costs.

I don;t think these checks would apply to me - Im not a commercial driver and my van is tiny.

Just putting it out there - The vehicle you have, regardless of how it is used, is a commercial vehicle- therefore you could be subject to VOSA checks. How would the spot check know that you were or were not driving the vehicle on a commercial basis?