E350 CDI C207 Remap & Service

[BigMark]

So they did a remap on a dyno and didn’t give you a print out of the figures? Bit strange!!

No, as I said in post #11 I didn't put the car on the dyno.

 

[Gnasher141]

Sorry I presumed MSL did the remap on rollers.

 

[BigMark]

When I rang to book my car in for the various work she said that time on the dyno is £100 extra, but for a regular diesel remap it's not really necessary, it's more for petrol cars and maps with pops & bangs. So I went with what she said and didn't bother with time on the dyno.

 

[W1ghty]

Deffo not, hence looking for remap

Better the devil you know. The car is totally sound, so I've decided to keep it and take my chances with diesel availability next year and bike to work in the worst case.

I like your style buddy

 

[kendog91]

Thanks guys.

I was a little hesitant about a remap as once remapped my old Ford gave me no end of problems after.

But I've been doing some research today as I'd already seen MSL and GAD mentioned favourably. MSL aren't too far from me and from their website it appears they do a lot more than just mapping, so will ask them also about a service, and possibly some minor paint correction and window tints when I speak to them.

i'm a little offended you've compared Ford to Mercedes....

 

[OneForTheRoad]

i'm a little offended you've compared Ford to Mercedes....

I own both ,can't complain tbh. I did once however have a VW Passat remapped,now that did give me a whole world of pain afterwards . Boost pressure was too high for the standard map sensor. I ended up buying a map sensor for a high end diesel golf to cure the fault.

Without a rolling road I'd imagine this remap to be £150 and a generic flash done from a laptop.

 

[E55BOF]

MSL did the remap on mine, back in February 2020, putting a Big Fish Tuning map on it. The dyno sheet reveals 318 hp and 516 lb ft/700 nm.

As Black C55 says, it makes a massive difference; I had the same OM642 in a 2014 E-class, and it's night and day. The only thing I don't like is that the inbuilt MB throttle lag in some circumstances is still there, but I've spoken to Big Fish, and was told that as its their map, they're happy to tinker with it, so if I bring the car in they will improve the throttle response for me.

 

[OneForTheRoad]

MSL did the remap on mine, back in February 2020, putting a Big Fish Tuning map on it. The dyno sheet reveals 318 hp and 516 lb ft/700 nm.

As Black C55 says, it makes a massive difference; I had the same OM642 in a 2014 E-class, and it's night and day. The only thing I don't like is that the inbuilt MB throttle lag in some circumstances is still there, but I've spoken to Big Fish, and was told that as its their map, they're happy to tinker with it, so if I bring the car in they will improve the throttle response for me.

Nice gains . I might have mine done . It's just gone 20k so plenty of life left in it. Was it drive able in the wet ,without slippers ?

 

[Gazwould]

MSL did the remap on mine, back in February 2020, putting a Big Fish Tuning map on it. The dyno sheet reveals 318 hp and 516 lb ft/700 nm.

As Black C55 says, it makes a massive difference; I had the same OM642 in a 2014 E-class, and it's night and day. The only thing I don't like is that the inbuilt MB throttle lag in some circumstances is still there, but I've spoken to Big Fish, and was told that as its their map, they're happy to tinker with it, so if I bring the car in they will improve the throttle response for me.

Will be interesting to find out how much there is to play with - how many settings .

And presuming the 'highest' is closest to a 1:1 relationship and your total satisfaction .

 

[E55BOF]

Nice gains . I might have mine done . It's just gone 20k so plenty of life left in it. Was it drive able in the wet ,without slippers ?

Perfectly tractable in the wet, but once you hoof it, there's just more of everything everywhere...

 

[MrGreedy]

Interesting, GAD now have a hard limit of 10 years or 100k miles for remapping, but they will do an EGR electronic delete without removing DPF.

MSL don't have the age limits, but will only delete both EGR and DPF if you elect to have that done (for your off road track use); they won't only delete EGR.

Big Fish (who write MSL maps) don't have the age limits, and will do just the electronic EGR delete, but recommend you have the DPF removed at the same time, or leave both the EGR and DPF if they are both working and just keep an eye on and/or spend the £1k to clean the inlet manifolds every so often which can't help anything but get gummed up due to EGR activity.
The reason for this recommendation is the E350 has a smaller than usual DPF, and therefore because EGR delete apparently results in higher soot going into the DPF (I assume because it isn't clogging up the inlet manifold), the DPF will do more frequent regens.

I'd be interested to know if anyone thinks EGR delete does in reality create noticeably more DPF soot collection, and have a guess at how much.

 

[Gazwould]

Egr delete = less soot .

 

[MrGreedy]

Egr delete = less soot .

Is that more oxygen into the engine?
less soot generated in the engine?
less soot into the DPF?
or less soot into the inlet manifold because the EGR is closed?

I'm wondering what the recommendation is based from of not having an EGR delete because it will put more soot into the DPF and cause more regular regens?
I must admit, this is the opposite of what I originally thought, but the info I've received has me confused.
I ask because I'm scientifically curious about the operation of the engine. I wonder if it has anything to do with 'in combination with a remap' and changes to fuelling?

Any thoughts Gazwould?

 

[Gazwould]

Plenty...

Egr gasses are inert , devoid of oxygen so therefore by replacing part of the oxygenated cool clean filtered air with inert = more incomplete combustion of derv fuel molecules which is soot .

 

[MrGreedy]

Plenty...

Egr gasses are inert , devoid of oxygen so therefore by replacing part of the oxygenated cool clean filtered air with inert = more incomplete combustion of derv fuel molecules which is soot .

Well, that was my thinking. I can't understand why EGR blanking would create more DPF regens.

 

[E55BOF]

Plenty...

Egr gasses are inert , devoid of oxygen so therefore by replacing part of the oxygenated cool clean filtered air with inert = more incomplete combustion of derv fuel molecules which is soot .

Surely it follows that a higher proportion of cool clean air in the charge would mean there would be less, not more, incomplete combustion, and hence less soot? Isn't the EGR valve there to produce a cleaner exhaust by lowering the combustion temperature and slowing down the burn, thereby reducing NOx emissions, not the soot?

 

[MrGreedy]

Surely it follows that a higher proportion of cool clean air in the charge would mean there would be less, not more, incomplete combustion, and hence less soot?

Yeah, that's what Gazwould is saying. Had to read it a couple of times myself to make sure I understood.

EGR gases introduce inert air means more incomplete combination due to less cool clean oxygen containing air going in.

Therefore reciprocally (although I don't know if engine management makes it this simple):
No EGR means more fresh cool oxygen rich air, and therefore less incomplete combustion (i.e. more complete combustion and less soot).

I'm still curious why EGR delete is claimed to make more DPF soot by Big Fish (and by association) MSL. As well as the technical curiosity, I'm thinking of a standard remap, and I want to be sure of the capability of the outfit I choose, and thinking through the above logic makes me question that.

There might be other factors at play I haven't thought of. Remapping isn't my job and I'd wager a remapper would have a better handle on it than me. I just don't understand the claim. If it was all that soot should be dumped in the inlet instead of the DPF to extend DPF regens, that seems like a terrible design feature by the OEM and doesn't make sense.

 

[Gazwould]

It really is the most terrible of things .

 

[MrGreedy]

It really is the most terrible of things .

Sure, so can you hypothesis why a remapper might suggest why an EGR delete would shorten the life of the DPF enough to worry about due to high soot levels? I'm trying to think of a reason but I can't.

 

[Gazwould]

Basically there isn't except for on some cars the egr could be a prerequisite for dpf regeneration by both regulating the temperature and pressure .

This was said by a tuner of another make of car , then a more experienced tuner of that make of car tuned them with the egr closed without issue .