E350 CDI C207 Remap & Service

[E55BOF]

If you delete the EGR your car is no longer legal to use on the road, because it is no longer emissions-compliant. Presumably that doesn't bother you?

 

[Gazwould]

This is the problem with forms , it's just full of people who don't know things .

Then someone who thinks that person knows and repeats and so bandwagons begin and can last for decades !

 

[MrGreedy]

If you delete the EGR your car is no longer legal to use on the road, because it is no longer emissions-compliant. Presumably that doesn't bother you?

Thanks E55BOF, but who is that question addressed to?

If that's targeted at me, I thought I made my reasons for wanting to know this clear.

1. I'm scientifically interested in why EGR delete would cause the claimed increase in soot in the DPF.

2. I'm interested in a bog standard remap. Because the EGR delete to me would intuitive REDUCE soot (and therefore I presume reduce soot in the DPF), on the face of it claims from a remapper that it increases soot worries me, because it makes me question the capability of the remapper to do that standard stage 1 remap.

As previously stated, there might be other factors at play, which is why I am trying to understand that. I am not seeking to do an EGR delete. I haven't seen anyone else in this thread seeking to do an EGR delete. I don't want to do a DPF delete.

Can I please ask what should bother me about making sure the remapper is competent and knows what they are talking about?

Or is the comment directed at someone else doing an EGR delete?

I think there could be a misunderstanding here, so I'm sure we can easily clear that up.

 

[E55BOF]

Fair enough; I had formed the opinion that you were considering an EGR delete. I'm glad you are not.

One thing, though. If you feel the need to make sure MSL and Big Fish Tuning, whose maps MSL used to use for the OM642 until recently, are competent and know what they are talking about, you're in a minority of one; hundreds of happy customers are unlikely to be wrong.

Most of my runs are over ten miles, and frequently (commuting) are twenty miles each way; the DPF soot content reading never goes above 4%. It's lots of short runs from cold that sludge up diesel inlets and fill up DPFs, so unless that's your travel pattern you probably need not worry.

Get it remapped; you'll like it...

 

[MrGreedy]

If you feel the need to make sure MSL and Big Fish Tuning, whose maps MSL used to use for the OM642 until recently, are competent and know what they are talking about, you're in a minority of one; hundreds of happy customers are unlikely to be wrong.

One of the curses of being a materials scientist working with chemists in a former career path I guess, and my general experience from the majority of anyone doing any job is that as a general rule of thumb there are eye watering amounts of bodgers out there passing/blagging themselves off as 'professionals'. Did I mention I've got the horror of builders round at the moment

I've spoken with them again. The suggestion is that if the EGR is in place, because it is allowing some sooty air to recirculate through the engine, the soot in this recirculate air is burnt and results is some reduced soot loading for the DPF.
It's also suggested that primary soot generation would not be impacted (reduced) by EGR delete, because the ECU would adjust air charge and fueling parameters resulting in a similar level of primary soot generation.

I'm still not totally convinced, but there we are and I'm not the specialist in engine chemistry, combustion and stoichiometry.

Also as a side note and to be fair to BFT, their recommendation is nice to hear that if no problems, leave the EGR and DPF alone and working as intended.

 

[Gazwould]

This chap knows his stuff .

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[OneForTheRoad]

This chap knows his stuff .

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Yawn

 

[Gazwould]

Some people don't want to learn...

 

[OneForTheRoad]

Sex, Flies and Videotape: A Detailed Look Into How Fruit Flies Copulate

Researchers have combined video monitoring and genetic manipulation to examine the love life of fruit flies.

www.technologynetworks.com

 

[E55BOF]

Nobody wants to learn that much...

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

The suggestion is that if the EGR is in place, because it is allowing some sooty air to recirculate through the engine, the soot in this recirculate air is burnt and results is some reduced soot loading for the DPF.
It's also suggested that primary soot generation would not be impacted (reduced) by EGR delete, because the ECU would adjust air charge and fueling parameters resulting in a similar level of primary soot generation.

Yes, this was always pretty logical/intuitive to me from a layman's POV - more air is getting a second chance to burn = less soot.

Then you read the argument saying that the removal of the EGR allows for a cleaner burn and less soot in the first place, and that seems totally logical too.

I think the reality is that without an actual controlled test with and without EGR under the same conditions, nobody will really know.

Speaking of which: https://www.researchgate.net/public...y_from_a_diesel_engine_operating_at_high_load

I've definitely seen more people (online) say that the EGR off reduces soot, but most of them are people that are trying to sell you a remap or just MOAR POWAR!!! and to hell with the emissions.

 

[ALFAitalia]

No one seems (unless I've missed it) seems to be mentioning that the cause of all the oily tarry crap in the pic above (that's a really bad one too.....surprised it ran) is NOT caused by the EGR....and least not the EGR on its own. Sure the EGR lets sooty air into the intake but its the oil vapour from the PCV that allow all that yuk to form and build up. My car had about 110,000 miles when I bought it and one of the first things I did was strip and clean the inlet manifold....it was not as bad as that one but the inlet ports were quite reduced by the tar build up....at the same time I fitted an oil catch can to the PCV system........56,000 miles later my intake is still pretty spotless with just a thin coating of grey dust. To form that oily snot that blocks ports takes oil vapour as well as the soot......just the exhaust gas from the EGR on its own wont cause a serious problem.
Sure for the best possible solution delete the EGR (only via software changes....physical removal is an instant MOT fail....if he notices) and a good quality oil catch can in the PCV plumbing.

 

[Gazwould]

Absolutely , the mix with normally occurring crankcase oil vapour is the gunk .

It acts as a grinding paste in some areas .

What some might not realise is that when the inlet manifold ports get reduced the engine runs less efficiently and that then is more overall pollution .

The majority see less smoke out of the exhaust and this can show a figurative difference with the smoke opacity test plus not so dark oil come a dip stick check or oil change time .

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

I have to say, I've never seen any 'smoke'/soot come out of any OM642 with a DPF except for ones that have clearly been remapped and cover you with **** as they boot it.

So I'm not worried about it kicking out the back of the car, moreso staying in the engine vs burnt off in the DPF...

I've found that my car DPF regens based on milage rather than driving style btw.

 

[OneForTheRoad]

The PCv on the o.m642 vents straight into the turbo also, no misty oils to the egr ,etc. I'd think so anyways

 

[Gazwould]

The majority see less smoke out of the exhaust and this can show a figurative difference with the smoke opacity test

I'm talking non DPF Euro 3 and 4 here which is a nice indication that DPF equipped will have less soot to deal with .

 

[Gazwould]

I have to say, I've never seen any 'smoke'/soot come out of any OM642 with a DPF except for ones that have clearly been remapped and cover you with **** as they boot it.

Possibly badly mapped and other reasons too like a small boost leak and poorly thermostat .

 

[merc07]

Most of my runs are over ten miles, and frequently (commuting) are twenty miles each way; the DPF soot content reading never goes above 4%. It's lots of short runs from cold that sludge up diesel inlets and fill up DPFs, so unless that's your travel pattern you probably need not worry.

Get it remapped; you'll like it...

What do you mean never goes above 4%, how can that be and how did you figure it?

Mine goes to 100% and does a regen every 1 to 2 days at the moment but that's 200+ miles a day..

 

[E55BOF]

I ran it for a couple of weeks with the iCarsoft permanently connected; when it got to 4% (just once) it regenerated. I'm just about to go out in it, and the cable is still in place, so I'll see what the figures are now.

 

[merc07]

I ran it for a couple of weeks with the iCarsoft permanently connected; when it got to 4% (just once) it regenerated. I'm just about to go out in it, and the cable is still in place, so I'll see what the figures are now.

I'll think you'll find that 4% is a little misleading, my icarsoft always said similar, it's showing 3.7g at the moment, my app shows 49.3 %, it will only get up to around 7g on the icarsoft which is 100%