E63 AMGS Engine Seizure

[E55BOF]

MB have not said you have to pay 9k for an inspection...

They have; if the CEO's PA has said that following contact, she speaks for the CEO. I'd think of it as more MB declining to pay for it themselves. They have done nothing unreasonable; they don't know what is wrong with the car. What if the owner has thrashed the life out of it and it has run low on oil? They don't know if that is the case; if they pay for the stripdown, they're £9k out of pocket and have no way of recovering it. Once they know the problem is down to a manufacturing fault, and therefore the size of the potential final bill, I have no doubt they will make an offer, but it will probably be to the selling dealer, and it doesn't affect the owner's rights under the Act.

OP, you've gone as far as you can; let the lawyer take it from here.

 

[Smiley]

They have; if the CEO's PA has said that following contact, she speaks for the CEO. I'd think of it as more MB declining to pay for it themselves. They have done nothing unreasonable; they don't know what is wrong with the car. What if the owner has thrashed the life out of it and it has run low on oil? They don't know if that is the case; if they pay for the stripdown, they're £9k out of pocket and have no way of recovering it. Once they know the problem is down to a manufacturing fault, and therefore the size of the potential final bill, I have no doubt they will make an offer, but it will probably be to the selling dealer, and it doesn't affect the owner's rights under the Act.

OP, you've gone as far as you can; let the lawyer take it from here.

What you say is factually correct...BUT ...the OP bought the car brand new, it is 3.5 yrs old and has been serviced by MB in the meantime. It is not some random car that has come into them with no history. Sure I would expect them to check the engine oil level but that does not cost £9k, and I would also expect there to be a warning on the dash asking for more oil to be added if that were the cause.
On a balance of probability it is a manufacturing defect that has led to this and I would have thought that MB ought to be being more helpful for a top end car that is only 6 months out of warranty.

 

[E55BOF]

Can't argue with any of that, and it's pretty disappointing that MB haven't been more helpful in this case, but there it is; they're keeping their powder dry until they know the extent of the problem. Think of them as an Australian wicket-keeper in a test match; conduct strictly within the letter of the law, but leaving a bad taste in the mouth...

 

[philnewmerc]

They have; if the CEO's PA has said that following contact, she speaks for the CEO. I'd think of it as more MB declining to pay for it themselves. They have done nothing unreasonable; they don't know what is wrong with the car. What if the owner has thrashed the life out of it and it has run low on oil? They don't know if that is the case; if they pay for the stripdown, they're £9k out of pocket and have no way of recovering it. Once they know the problem is down to a manufacturing fault, and therefore the size of the potential final bill, I have no doubt they will make an offer, but it will probably be to the selling dealer, and it doesn't affect the owner's rights under the Act.

OP, you've gone as far as you can; let the lawyer take it from here.

Imho what MB are actually saying is "we don't give a shit what it costs or who pays for it as long as it's not us, we just want to know that it is a manufacturing fault and not something else then we might think about offering some goodwill. And if it's one of our dealers doing the inspection they'll probably find that it's not a manufacturing fault, so we'll win win either way". The OP's legally correct strategy is to pursue the dealer who he has the contract with and no one else. The OP should recover his car and have an independent inspection and add that bill onto the bill for a new engine, and his solicitor should point this out to the dealer.

 

[E55BOF]

No, what MB are saying is that they want to know what the fault is before they commit to anything. That's not unreasonable.

With any luck the supplying dealer will see the writing on the wall once a lawyer is involved.

 

[philnewmerc]

No, what MB are saying is that they want to know what the fault is before they commit to anything. That's not unreasonable.

With any luck the supplying dealer will see the writing on the wall once a lawyer is involved.

That's exactly what I said! - the only thing I added is MB don't give a shit who pays, so whether OP, dealer, next door neighbour, it's no skin off their nose...

 

[Alboy]

Well I am seeking legal representation now, as am not getting anywhere as you all advised.
The original dealer has called the current dealer and managed to get the inspection cost reduced by 600 to a total of £8,400. At the same time they said the cost of the new engine is closer to £60k before labour, so have indicated I could end up with a bill of £80k once you include inspection, new engine and labour!!! For a 3.5 year old car, 30k miles, fully service maintained.

They have also said their initial inspection has confirmed no warning lights ever came on, so no indication I have not put enough oil in. They have also said the amount of metal they have found in the engine oil is severe and they would not feel comfortable repairing, so would have to be a new engine. They keep imploring me to authorize the inspection which I am not prepared to do for reasons explained above.

So legal it is, and am finding consumer law specialists, ideally with a background in auto claims. If you have any suggestions . . . . . .

 

[rOckyAMG]

Well I am seeking legal representation now, as am not getting anywhere as you all advised.
The original dealer has called the current dealer and managed to get the inspection cost reduced by 600 to a total of £8,400. At the same time they said the cost of the new engine is closer to £60k before labour, so have indicated I could end up with a bill of £80k once you include inspection, new engine and labour!!! For a 3.5 year old car, 30k miles, fully service maintained.

They have also said their initial inspection has confirmed no warning lights ever came on, so no indication I have not put enough oil in. They have also said the amount of metal they have found in the engine oil is severe and they would not feel comfortable repairing, so would have to be a new engine. They keep imploring me to authorize the inspection which I am not prepared to do for reasons explained above.

So legal it is, and am finding consumer law specialists, ideally with a background in auto claims. If you have any suggestions . . . . . .

Did you have your car recently serviced?

 

[atilio]

Help, My E63 AMGS is 3.5 years old (out of warranty - did not extend it), bought brand new from Mercedes and the other day whilst driving along made an awful noise and cut out. Was recovered to dealer, who today said engine is totally seized up, and they want to charge me £9k to strip the engine to find the fault, at which point they can apply to Mercedes for a contribution (which there is no guarantee of them paying, or any idea of how much), or I could just install a new engine at a cost of £40k-£50k. Obviously this is a totally unacceptable situation, and am not sure what to do. The car was completely standard (never been modified), had done 32k miles, full dealer service history, been well looked after, and not driven too hard (apart from the occasional). Does anyone have any ideas on what I could do?

Was the vehicle serviced regularly? Witch im assuming it was being that new
I had an engine m176/177 sezing up without any warning conecting rod bearings
We narrowed it down to electronic oil pressure regolator stuck in idle position
No warranty on this vehicle and it was modified
However this engines had suffered from this for sometime even on the m157 2014 2015
The same part was used on m177 m176 4.0

 

[Alboy]

Did you have your car recently serviced?

10 months ago, so not recent enough, although I am now wondering what they actually did

 

[Alboy]

Was the vehicle serviced regularly? Witch im assuming it was being that new
I had an engine m176/177 sezing up without any warning conecting rod bearings
We narrowed it down to electronic oil pressure regolator stuck in idle position
No warranty on this vehicle and it was modified
However this engines had suffered from this for sometime even on the m157 2014 2015
The same part was used on m177 m176 4.0

Yes it was serviced annually by main dealer, full service history etc.

 

[Alboy]

So yesterday the dealer called me back to say they think there was a lack of oil in the engine which has caused it to seize. They asked me questions around when I last put oil in, to which I responded I last checked it a month ago before I did a long drive and it did not need any oil, so did not put any in. The dealer also confirmed there were no warning lights on display, so the car did not tell me it needed oil. Am getting worried that should I ever give in to them doing the inspection they will just say there was not enough oil and try to pin it on me, despite no warning lights, full dealer service etc.

Later today I have my first meeting with a consumer rights lawyer, so will have to see where that takes me.

If I was to need an independent Mercedes specialist to look at the engine and provide a report, does anybody have any recommendations? Ideally somewhere in the London area.

 

[E55BOF]

Terry Gates in Harrow would be good, but potentially he could have the car sat on a ramp for quite some time with the engine in bits on the floor, and his premises are very tight for space and pretty busy. Added to that, access would be a nightmare if it needed the engineless car trailered away for repair elsewhere, so he might not want to do it.

Regarding cost, when I had my E63's M157 removed, stripped down to the bare block and repaired there about three years ago, the total bill, including having one cylinder linered and all-new pistons and conrods, was just over £11k, so £9K just to remove and strip your engine to the point where the cause of the failure could be determined seems quite high, even at main dealer labour rates.

It really doesn't matter what mileage the car actually covered since you last checked the oil, unless it was several thousands of miles, and istr you stated earlier that the dealer had already told you that it was not low on oil. Given that the oil level warning had not come on, that rather confirms that. Either way, it's not your problem.

The whole problem is for the dealer from whom you bought the car to resolve, so see what your lawyer says. He/she will be also be able to estimate how much of the cost you are likely to have to bear to reflect the use you have had out of the car since you bought it.

 

[rOckyAMG]

I think its not the lack of OIL. I believe there is a kill switch now for some of the new engines as it wont start if there is no engine oil!

 

[Teego]

I think that the cause of failure is irrelevant. Unless they can prove that you failed to inspect, maintain and drive it to a reasonable level of care, the ball is in the supplying dealer's court.
You have the basis of a claim under the consumer rights act. You and your lawyer should be working hand in hand to get your judgement and Costs.
You will get a result.

 

[badgx]

Was looking at the complexity of this engine, it does look very complex compared to all former engines

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[alexanderfoti]

Was the vehicle serviced regularly? Witch im assuming it was being that new
I had an engine m176/177 sezing up without any warning conecting rod bearings
We narrowed it down to electronic oil pressure regolator stuck in idle position
No warranty on this vehicle and it was modified
However this engines had suffered from this for sometime even on the m157 2014 2015
The same part was used on m177 m176 4.0

This failure logs a fault code, but often won't put the check engine light on. Very important to not ignore this code.

 

[Iggu]

Horrific story. I have nothing to add which hasn’t already been said but I hope you get it resolved OP.
The very idea of an £80k repair on any car with a value under £500k is totally ludicrous in my eyes.
Fingers crossed for you.

 

[Teego]

Horrific story. I have nothing to add which hasn’t already been said but I hope you get it resolved OP.
The very idea of an £80k repair on any car with a value under £500k is totally ludicrous in my eyes.
Fingers crossed for you.

Even if OP's car cost £750k the basis of the claim would be the same.

 

[Iggu]

Even if OP's car cost £750k the basis of the claim would be the same.

I know.