Electric car depreciation

[BTB 500]

Blyme, you're posh people.... I use the red telephone box outside the pub.above it

In the early '80s my first flat had a shared ('party') line with the house above it.

 

[190]

Decarbonising power production isn't a bad idea... we need more nuclear power stations.

We certainly do, it was a grave mistake not to have had more in the pipeline given they take decades to come to fruition.

On the other hand we could ask Labour or the SNP and they will promise to have them up and running by 2030.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Their employer’s EV company car policy, is, in large part, what slaughters second hand values.

FTFY.

Being an EV is irrelevant to that statement. It’s company cars - and fleets more generally - which affect supply and demand and therefore depreciation of some models.

In the UK especially, cars which are popular with fleets have always depreciated heaviest. Cortina’s, Sierras and Mondeos were affected long before even Elon had an EV company car.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The 24 kWh version has a motorway range of 75 miles, so probably not best suited to long runs.

It’s a 24 kWh model. It’s a small car that we’ll use almost exclusively for short journeys 99.9% of the time and so will rarely travel further than the 90 miles it can comfortably cover on one charge.

It’s perfect for that - I suspect many families have a car which is used like this. Why carry around a battery which is twice the size it needs to be and the extra capacity will rarely be used?

Most (but not all) people, most of the time use their car to drive to work, school, shops, restaurants, medical appointments and visit family, and these are short journeys most of the time.

A small EV excels at this and is much better suited to this type of journey than a large ICE vehicle. Whilst it’s the case for many - especially those with two cars - it’s not the case for all.

The good news (for those who are keen on EVs) is that larger, ICE powered vehicles will continue to be available for many years to come, and EVs can very easily co-exist with larger ICE vehicles.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The 24 kWh version has a motorway range of 75 miles, so probably not best suited to long runs.

We regulalrly visit Devon over the Summer months, and we’d need to stop twice on that trip if we took the 500e. Even though it’s only 220-240 miles depending upon route, it usually takes 4-8 hours.

Even in a car that could go there and back on a single tank, I can count on one hand the number of times that I’ve done it without stopping part-way, and I’ve done it several hundred times.

Most often it takes around 5-6 hours and I usually stop twice, once to eat and once for a drink. Stopping to drink, stretch, walk - walk the dog - help to break up the journey and keep fresh.

I prefer not to drive for much more than 2 hours in a single stint. It adds little time to the journey and whether a journey takes 5 hours or 6 hours doesn’t really make a great deal of difference.

We didn’t buy the car for that type of trip, but it would be interesting to take it one time - perhaps when my daughter passes her test - set off at the same time and see how the journey differs.

 

[markjay]

We regulalrly visit Devon over the Summer months, and we’d need to stop twice on that trip if we took the 500e. Even though it’s only 220-240 miles depending upon route, it usually takes 4-8 hours.

Even in a car that could go there and back on a single tank, I can count on one hand the number of times that I’ve done it without stopping part-way, and I’ve done it several hundred times.

Most often it takes around 5-6 hours and I usually stop twice, once to eat and once for a drink. Stopping to drink, stretch, walk - walk the dog - help to break up the journey and keep fresh.

I prefer not to drive for much more than 2 hours in a single stint. It adds little time to the journey and whether a journey takes 5 hours or 6 hours doesn’t really make a great deal of difference.

We didn’t buy the car for that type of trip, but it would be interesting to take it one time - perhaps when my daughter passes her test - set off at the same time and see how the journey differs.

That was also my experience driving through France.... in fact I needed more frequent, and longer stops than the car did......

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

We regulalrly visit Devon over the Summer months, and we’d need to stop twice on that trip if we took the 500e. Even though it’s only 220-240 miles depending upon route, it usually takes 4-8 hours.
Even in a car that could go there and back on a single tank, I can count on one hand the number of times that I’ve done it without stopping part-way, and I’ve done it several hundred times.
Most often it takes around 5-6 hours and I usually stop twice, once to eat and once for a drink. Stopping to drink, stretch, walk - walk the dog - help to break up the journey and keep fresh.
I prefer not to drive for much more than 2 hours in a single stint. It adds little time to the journey and whether a journey takes 5 hours or 6 hours doesn’t really make a great deal of difference.
We didn’t buy the car for that type of trip, but it would be interesting to take it one time - perhaps when my daughter passes her test - set off at the same time and see how the journey differs.

To muddy, or clarify, the waters further, I have various friends with second homes in both Cornwall and Devon which they use for 10 weeks of the year. "Getting on a bit," (over 50) they all stop overnight on the way down "to make the 250-300 mile journey more of a pleasure for themselves." For this Volvo / Audi ICE crew, it's people range that's the issue, not fuel

Having started work in a motorway munching industry, personally, I'm happy driving 400-500 miles a day (to Edinburgh or Beaune). A journey easily done, at half the cost, in a modern EV capable of high speed charging. (Ioniq 5 / Hyundai Niro). I just have to wait for an EV as pleasurable to drive as a C class or Dreier. (That doesn't look like a flattened potato). EV Range isn't the issue.

 

[BTB 500]

It’s a 24 kWh model. It’s a small car that we’ll use almost exclusively for short journeys 99.9% of the time and so will rarely travel further than the 90 miles it can comfortably cover on one charge.

It’s perfect for that - I suspect many families have a car which is used like this. Why carry around a battery which is twice the size it needs to be and the extra capacity will rarely be used?

Most (but not all) people, most of the time use their car to drive to work, school, shops, restaurants, medical appointments and visit family, and these are short journeys most of the time.

A small EV excels at this and is much better suited to this type of journey than a large ICE vehicle. Whilst it’s the case for many - especially those with two cars - it’s not the case for all.

The good news (for those who are keen on EVs) is that larger, ICE powered vehicles will continue to be available for many years to come, and EVs can very easily co-exist with larger ICE vehicles.

Totally agree that if you have a car used almost exclusively for short/local trips a small EV can make good sense. In reality though a larger (but not 'large') car with more range (whether ICE or EV) is more flexible as that will handle local runs to the shops etc. as well.

As you say it all depends on the number of drivers in the household and their usage patterns - also parking/garage space etc. If money was no object we would quite likely have a small EV for local work, charged during the day for 'free' from our solar panels. But financially this would make no sense compared to burning a little fuel in the C Class (neither of us commute, so we don't do an awful lot of local mileage).

 

[BTB 500]

We regulalrly visit Devon over the Summer months, and we’d need to stop twice on that trip if we took the 500e. Even though it’s only 220-240 miles depending upon route, it usually takes 4-8 hours.

Even in a car that could go there and back on a single tank, I can count on one hand the number of times that I’ve done it without stopping part-way, and I’ve done it several hundred times.

Most often it takes around 5-6 hours and I usually stop twice, once to eat and once for a drink. Stopping to drink, stretch, walk - walk the dog - help to break up the journey and keep fresh.

I prefer not to drive for much more than 2 hours in a single stint. It adds little time to the journey and whether a journey takes 5 hours or 6 hours doesn’t really make a great deal of difference.

We didn’t buy the car for that type of trip, but it would be interesting to take it one time - perhaps when my daughter passes her test - set off at the same time and see how the journey differs.

Wow averaging as low as 30 mph on a trip to Devon is pretty dire - is that down to summer traffic congestion? Suspect you'd want 3 stops in the 500e to avoid lengthy charges to 100%, but that would only one more than you're doing now anyway so no big deal.

A long run on reasonably clear motorways would be more of a nuisance - if using 10-80% rapid charges (to save time) you'd need to stop every 50 miles or so.

 

[markjay]

Wow averaging as low as 30 mph on a trip to Devon is pretty dire - is that down to summer traffic congestion? Suspect you'd want 3 stops in the 500e to avoid lengthy charges to 100%, but that would only one more than you're doing now anyway so no big deal.

A long run on reasonably clear motorways would be more of a nuisance - if using 10-80% rapid charges (to save time) you'd need to stop every 50 miles or so.

ABRP gives you the option to choose - on a sliding scale - between many short charging stops, and fewer longer charging stops. The default setting is halfway between the two

I found that in the default setting, ABRP optimises the route by advising relatively short charging stops - e.g. 7 or 8 minutes. But in my case, the charging plan was thrown into disarray at each charging stop, because between walking to the petrol station shop and walking the dog I ended-up staying longer than that, and all that time the car kept charging beyond the 'optimal' point, meaning that ABRP needed to recalculate the 'optimal' charging plan after each stop...

Eventually I set the scale to the far end, i.e. fewer longer charging stops. It then advised stops of 10-15 minutes, which were still too short for me... on most stops, the car ended-up with 100% battery or near that, not by design but simply because it kept charging until I was ready to go.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Wow averaging as low as 30 mph on a trip to Devon is pretty dire - is that down to summer traffic congestion? Suspect you'd want 3 stops in the 500e to avoid lengthy charges to 100%, but that would only one more than you're doing now anyway so no big deal.

A long run on reasonably clear motorways would be more of a nuisance - if using 10-80% rapid charges (to save time) you'd need to stop every 50 miles or so.

Yes, all down to traffic. In the Summer, travelling down on a Friday and setting off anywhere between 1200 and 1700 gets us there between 2000 and 2100, it’s bizarre.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

It then advised stops of 10-15 minutes, which were still too short for me... on most stops,

The very quickest stops are usually 20 minutes for pitstop for us and the dog and 40 minutes if we eat. We’re rarely that quick though, so charging stops wouldn’t be too intrusive (for us).

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Experiment update in the 500e:

So last night I did a 51 mph round trip, four up, in the dark, with A/C in, with the heating, wipers, radio and full beam on throughout. I was “making progress” as briskly as conditions would allow.

It also included 10 minutes of waiting with the ignition - and therefore A/C, heating, radio and wipers on - which carried on consuming energy. I drove the car with zero compromise, without regard for efficiency.

Even so, I covered 51 miles in 1h 43m at an average speed of 30 mph, consuming 4.1 mi/kWh and 62% of the battery in the process, reducing from a full (100%) charge to 38% with 28 miles remaining.

That means that the theoretical but real world range was 89 miles - but let’s say 80 miles as you ideally wouldn’t want to run all the way down to zero miles - compared to 115 WLTP Combined range.

I suspect that’s as close to the worst conditions for an EV. In Summer we split our time between North Devon and Notth Midlands. I could do the that journey with two stops, even in the conditions last night.

It takes 4-8 hours depending upon traffic, and so two stops for say 45 minutes is to be expected anyway - as I’m not a super human - and so I reckon the travel time would be very similar in ICE or EV.

That’s travelling in the shortest range option of the one of the shortest range models. A larger car with a larger battery and therefore longer range could only do better than that, ie the option of a one stop or non-stop.

Another experiment update: Today I had reason to use the public charging infrastructure, and ona bank holiday weekend too, and rather predictably what a $hit show the affair turned out to be. It was everything they say is true and more. You really couldn’t make this up, a total nightmare.

The charging station was in a very busy shopping centre and you’ve guessed it, the queue was absolutely huge. At Wagamama. But not for the EV chargers, I could take my pick of which bay to park in. No wonder that it was quiet though - and you’re not going to believe this, but - every single one of the 12 chargers were fully functional.

What an absolute nightmare it was trying to pay though. It took absolutely ages to get the thing to actually start charging, it must have taken me at least 5 seconds to type the stall number into the app. I even had wait to wait another 5 seconds for it to start charging, and then had to put up with a faster charging rate than expected.

I nipped into M&S to buy some pants and socks - crikey the effect of inflation on men’s underwear prices has been savage - only to be disturbed by the charging app telling me that the car finished charging ages ago and that I might want to think about moving it to free up the stall.

To add insult to injury, it must have been **** Turpin running the chargers because they charged me 40p per kWh, each of which equated to 5.9 miles of driving today, so a horrendous 7.8p per mile. It gets even worse though because the car park only goes and waives the parking fees depriving EV drivers of their right to pay to park.

Who said that driving an EV is low cost? The 22 mile round trip for three adults ended up costing me 29p, well it should have done, but not paying for the parking actually meant that I arrived home with a free extra 31 miles and an extra £1.80 in my pocket that when I set off. Who on earth do they think they are? Hanging would be too good for them.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Another experiment update: Today I had reason to use the public charging infrastructure, and ona bank holiday weekend too, and rather predictably what a $hit show the affair turned out to be. It was everything they say is true and more. You really couldn’t make this up, a total nightmare.

The charging station was in a very busy shopping centre and you’ve guessed it, the queue was absolutely huge. At Wagamama. But not for the EV chargers, I could take my pick of which bay to park in. No wonder that it was quiet though - and you’re not going to believe this, but - every single one of the 12 chargers were fully functional.

What an absolute nightmare it was trying to pay though. It took absolutely ages to get the thing to actually start charging, it must have taken me at least 5 seconds to type the stall number into the app. I even had wait to wait another 5 seconds for it to start charging, and then had to put up with a faster charging rate than expected.

I nipped into M&S to buy some pants and socks - crikey the effect of inflation on men’s underwear prices has been savage - only to be disturbed by the charging app telling me that the car finished charging ages ago and that I might want to think about moving it to free up the stall.

To add insult to injury, it must have been **** Turpin running the chargers because they charged me 40p per kWh, each of which equated to 5.9 miles of driving today, so a horrendous 7.8p per mile. It gets even worse though because the car park only goes and waives the parking fees depriving EV drivers of their right to pay to park.

Who said that driving an EV is low cost? The 22 mile round trip for three adults ended up costing me 29p, well it should have done, but not paying for the parking actually meant that I arrived home with a free extra 31 miles and an extra £1.80 in my pocket that when I set off. Who on earth do they think they are? Hanging would be too good for them.

That’s ridiculous. Why are you paying half the cost of fuelling your vehicle with diesel or petrol?

You could be spending virtually nothing if you charged free from your office or place of work. And hardly anything worth noticing if you just charged it at home.

There’s a reason why these charging bays are normally empty. Who needs them?

 

[Ted]

Another experiment update: Today I had reason to use the public charging infrastructure, and ona bank holiday weekend too, and rather predictably what a $hit show the affair turned out to be. It was everything they say is true and more. You really couldn’t make this up, a total nightmare.

The charging station was in a very busy shopping centre and you’ve guessed it, the queue was absolutely huge. At Wagamama. But not for the EV chargers, I could take my pick of which bay to park in. No wonder that it was quiet though - and you’re not going to believe this, but - every single one of the 12 chargers were fully functional.

What an absolute nightmare it was trying to pay though. It took absolutely ages to get the thing to actually start charging, it must have taken me at least 5 seconds to type the stall number into the app. I even had wait to wait another 5 seconds for it to start charging, and then had to put up with a faster charging rate than expected.

I nipped into M&S to buy some pants and socks - crikey the effect of inflation on men’s underwear prices has been savage - only to be disturbed by the charging app telling me that the car finished charging ages ago and that I might want to think about moving it to free up the stall.

To add insult to injury, it must have been **** Turpin running the chargers because they charged me 40p per kWh, each of which equated to 5.9 miles of driving today, so a horrendous 7.8p per mile. It gets even worse though because the car park only goes and waives the parking fees depriving EV drivers of their right to pay to park.

Who said that driving an EV is low cost? The 22 mile round trip for three adults ended up costing me 29p, well it should have done, but not paying for the parking actually meant that I arrived home with a free extra 31 miles and an extra £1.80 in my pocket that when I set off. Who on earth do they think they are? Hanging would be too good for them.

Brilliant! Made me smile .
The pants inflation made me think of

 

[SmartAmg]

Another experiment update: Today I had reason to use the public charging infrastructure, and ona bank holiday weekend too, and rather predictably what a $hit show the affair turned out to be. It was everything they say is true and more. You really couldn’t make this up, a total nightmare.

The charging station was in a very busy shopping centre and you’ve guessed it, the queue was absolutely huge. At Wagamama. But not for the EV chargers, I could take my pick of which bay to park in. No wonder that it was quiet though - and you’re not going to believe this, but - every single one of the 12 chargers were fully functional.

What an absolute nightmare it was trying to pay though. It took absolutely ages to get the thing to actually start charging, it must have taken me at least 5 seconds to type the stall number into the app. I even had wait to wait another 5 seconds for it to start charging, and then had to put up with a faster charging rate than expected.

I nipped into M&S to buy some pants and socks - crikey the effect of inflation on men’s underwear prices has been savage - only to be disturbed by the charging app telling me that the car finished charging ages ago and that I might want to think about moving it to free up the stall.

To add insult to injury, it must have been **** Turpin running the chargers because they charged me 40p per kWh, each of which equated to 5.9 miles of driving today, so a horrendous 7.8p per mile. It gets even worse though because the car park only goes and waives the parking fees depriving EV drivers of their right to pay to park.

Who said that driving an EV is low cost? The 22 mile round trip for three adults ended up costing me 29p, well it should have done, but not paying for the parking actually meant that I arrived home with a free extra 31 miles and an extra £1.80 in my pocket that when I set off. Who on earth do they think they are? Hanging would be too good for them.

Do I detect a touch of Sarcasm there, BD.

 

[SmartAmg]

Brilliant! Made me smile .
The pants inflation made me think of
View attachment 156406

Your size? BD.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Brilliant! Made me smile .
The pants inflation made me think of
View attachment 156406

that sums it up nicely!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Your size? BD.

I’m thin slip of a chap, an Extra Medium is ample

 

[SpikyMikey]

Surely your maths is flawed Mr D.
In your EV running cost per mile calculation you haven't factored in the price of the undies which you were forced to buy at M & S just to kill time waiting for your car to charge.
Include that in the costs and you'd realise what a total con the whole EV thing is.
But I'm sure you'll look great in that skimpy black lacy number.