Erroneous French speeding ticket

[Williamwoo]

A few weeks ago we received a French speeding ticket. The numberplate correlates with a car we own, BUT we weren’t in France at the time, we hadn’t lent it to anyone and have never taken that car to France. I responded stating this and asking to see the photographic evidence, assuming that either the plate has been cloned or the numberplate has been slightly mis-read by the camera, French numberplates being similar to ours in layout (AB123CD as opposed to our AB12CDE).

I phoned the police but they advised doing nothing until or unless it was proven that the numberplate had been cloned, not least because we’d keep getting mistaken for the cloned vehicle on ANPR systems. They strongly suggested getting hold of a copy of the photo.

I assumed we’d hear nothing more but a few days ago we received an email saying they reject our claim because of ‘non-compliance with at least one of the mandatory rules prescribed by Articles 529-10 and 530 of the Code of Civil Procedure’ i.e:

• ‘No deposit made’ – they seem to expect us to pay the fine even if we then contest it, as far as I can see. (By ‘deposit’ they actually mean the total amount of the fine, amusing though it would otherwise have been to pay, say, I cent.)
• ‘Absence of supporting document (complaint form, proof of payment, emergency, death certificate etc.).’ – I don’t know where to begin with this one

Guilty until proven innocent it would seem.

I can’t find anything similar on the net, but will reply, asking (again) to see the photographic evidence (especially given what I was told by the British police) and for some more information about the complaint form they mentioned.

Does anyone on here know anything about Articles 529-10 and 530 of the Code of Civil Procedure? Does it really mean we have to pay the fine first? What if we couldn’t afford to?

Can the French authorities collude with the British ones to force me to pay the fine, even though we will subsequently be proven innocent?

Sorry to go on, but any advice gratefully received.

 

[Mr. B]

This article might help a little.
The UK CAN'T chase foreign drivers for speeding and other offences | This is Money

 

[jpwilliams]

A few weeks ago we received a French speeding ticket. The numberplate correlates with a car we own, BUT we weren’t in France at the time, we hadn’t lent it to anyone and have never taken that car to France. I responded stating this and asking to see the photographic evidence, assuming that either the plate has been cloned or the numberplate has been slightly mis-read by the camera, French numberplates being similar to ours in layout (AB123CD as opposed to our AB12CDE).

I phoned the police but they advised doing nothing until or unless it was proven that the numberplate had been cloned, not least because we’d keep getting mistaken for the cloned vehicle on ANPR systems. They strongly suggested getting hold of a copy of the photo.

I assumed we’d hear nothing more but a few days ago we received an email saying they reject our claim because of ‘non-compliance with at least one of the mandatory rules prescribed by Articles 529-10 and 530 of the Code of Civil Procedure’ i.e:

• ‘No deposit made’ – they seem to expect us to pay the fine even if we then contest it, as far as I can see. (By ‘deposit’ they actually mean the total amount of the fine, amusing though it would otherwise have been to pay, say, I cent.)
• ‘Absence of supporting document (complaint form, proof of payment, emergency, death certificate etc.).’ – I don’t know where to begin with this one

Guilty until proven innocent it would seem.

I can’t find anything similar on the net, but will reply, asking (again) to see the photographic evidence (especially given what I was told by the British police) and for some more information about the complaint form they mentioned.

Does anyone on here know anything about Articles 529-10 and 530 of the Code of Civil Procedure? Does it really mean we have to pay the fine first? What if we couldn’t afford to?

Can the French authorities collude with the British ones to force me to pay the fine, even though we will subsequently be proven innocent?

Sorry to go on, but any advice gratefully received.

Ask Honest John. His advice is free.

 

[st13phil]

I believe that all camera detected speeding infractions are dealt with centrally, by an office in Rennes. I also understand that they have a website in English that it may be useful to consult as it should provide information on how to challenge the infraction notice.

I would suggest you register and post on the PePiPoo forums, as there is a contributor there (screen name Baradour) who has expertise in a French speeding matters and how the challenge process works.

 

[Teego]

Tell them, if they can't provide evidence you will consider the matter closed. They won't try anything else unless you enter France in a car with that reg no. The onus is on them.

 

[forrester123]

Tell them, if they can't provide evidence you will consider the matter closed. They won't try anything else unless you enter France in a car with that reg no. The onus is on them.

I had a speeding fine from France about 4 months ago, which I paid on line.
There was a facility in the notice to obtain a picture of the offending vehicle, but you had to pay for it!

 

[Williamwoo]

Tell them, if they can't provide evidence you will consider the matter closed. They won't try anything else unless you enter France in a car with that reg no. The onus is on them.

Thanks, but they also have my wife's name (the car is registered in her name) - might not she encounter issues if they tie our heinous 'offence' to her personally when she tries to return to France?

 

[Atavus]

You are meant to fill in the exemption request and send it. For a misuse of your registration number they don’t expect a deposit to be paid.

 

[Swotty]

Just to confirm that, if you're French resident, you have to first pay the fine before you contest it.

Welcome to the continental system of justice!

As others have said, there is a reciprocal agreement between France and the UK on speeding and other traffic fines. What happens in practice and whether there are any legal cases yet, must be covered somewhere on the various motoring forums.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

 

[neilrr]

PePiPoo: Search Results

 

[Srdl]

Have a look at this ANTAI: National agency for the automated processing of offences - Private individual

or this ANTAI - Appeal

 

[Mr. B]

Thanks, but they also have my wife's name (the car is registered in her name) - might not she encounter issues if they tie our heinous 'offence' to her personally when she tries to return to France?

Here are some of my suggestions.

1. Get some false plates made up for when you cross the border into France. For example if your plate has a D in it replace it with a O. If it has a 5 in it replace it with a S. Little subtle differences so if you get stopped by the Police play dumb and say you have just had the plates made up at Hallfords or wherever and it’s clearly a mistake on their part. Have all your original documents with you for the correct vehicle. Isle of Man is a good place to buy plates (oops shouldn’t have said that)

2. Put slight italics on the reg. plate. ANPR cameras can’t read italic number plates.

3. Better still buy a cheap private no. plate for your wife’s car. Chances are the French won’t connect the two numbers to the same owner on their data bases unlike in the UK.

4. I can see xmas being expensive for you this year ie. new car for your wife so you never have to take the other to France.

5. If all else fails just tell the French to rod off and your not paying because you haven’t done anything wrong and it’s up to them to prove it.

It’s a pity you don’t have access to the Police ANPR system because that would leave a trail for your wife’s car on the day in question, if it was being used that is.

Always happy to help

Disclaimer available on request.

 

[Williamwoo]

Case closed; thanks for all your advice.

Someone on PePiPoo explained how to apply for a copy of the photo (website completely unrelated to the Antai one), which I did. Shortly thereafter, they suddenly said they'd drop the case. However they didn't say why, other than to suggest that, if the numberplate has been cloned, I apply to re-register the car (er... without the photo, how was I supposed to know?).

I did also ask Honest John but all they said was to contact the French Embassy (who I doubt very much would have been interested).

Then suddenly I did receive a copy of the photo. The numberplate is largely unreadable (and I only received a paper copy, not an electronic image that I could possibly have manipulated), although some of it corresponds to mine, but the strange thing is the make is the same (Skoda), as is the colour (bronze) but the model clearly isn't (I have a Yeti - the photo is of an Octavia I think).

So we got there in the end, but a lot of wasted time I could have done without!

 

[Petrol Pete]

The French probably saw our recent general election results and quickly figured out they pretty soon they will be getting fruck all from us so just gave up and went for a 2 hour lunch break.

 

[219]

A few weeks ago we received a French speeding ticket. The numberplate correlates with a car we own, BUT we weren’t in France at the time, we hadn’t lent it to anyone and have never taken that car to France. I responded stating this and asking to see the photographic evidence, assuming that either the plate has been cloned or the numberplate has been slightly mis-read by the camera, French numberplates being similar to ours in layout (AB123CD as opposed to our AB12CDE).

I phoned the police but they advised doing nothing until or unless it was proven that the numberplate had been cloned, not least because we’d keep getting mistaken for the cloned vehicle on ANPR systems. They strongly suggested getting hold of a copy of the photo.

I assumed we’d hear nothing more but a few days ago we received an email saying they reject our claim because of ‘non-compliance with at least one of the mandatory rules prescribed by Articles 529-10 and 530 of the Code of Civil Procedure’ i.e:

• ‘No deposit made’ – they seem to expect us to pay the fine even if we then contest it, as far as I can see. (By ‘deposit’ they actually mean the total amount of the fine, amusing though it would otherwise have been to pay, say, I cent.)
• ‘Absence of supporting document (complaint form, proof of payment, emergency, death certificate etc.).’ – I don’t know where to begin with this one

Guilty until proven innocent it would seem.

I can’t find anything similar on the net, but will reply, asking (again) to see the photographic evidence (especially given what I was told by the British police) and for some more information about the complaint form they mentioned.

Does anyone on here know anything about Articles 529-10 and 530 of the Code of Civil Procedure? Does it really mean we have to pay the fine first? What if we couldn’t afford to?

Can the French authorities collude with the British ones to force me to pay the fine, even though we will subsequently be proven innocent?

Sorry to go on, but any advice gratefully received.

I think much depends on whether you plan to visit France in the future ?

I’ve never been there ever in my 61 years , and have no particular plans to ever go there - so I’d be tempted to just ignore it .

Of course , if you do have plans to go there , it may be different.

I’d also think that , much as I remain opposed to it , once Brexit takes place next month , EU countries may find it harder to pursue UK drivers over alleged motoring offences in their countries .

That’s about the only positive aspect of Brexit I can think of .

 

[markjay]

I think much depends on whether you plan to visit France in the future ?

I’ve never been there ever in my 61 years , and have no particular plans to ever go there - so I’d be tempted to just ignore it .

Of course , if you do have plans to go there , it may be different.

I’d also think that , much as I remain opposed to it , once Brexit takes place next month , EU countries may find it harder to pursue UK drivers over alleged motoring offences in their countries .

That’s about the only positive aspect of Brexit I can think of .

Firstly we are still part of the EU, and then going forward there may very well be a reciprocal agreement between the UK and EU in respect of driving offences, keeping in mind that this is also in the UK's interest to have this given the number of foreign lorries that cross the channel into the UK every year.

So I wouldn't suggest to ignore European fines, the world is becoming smaller and more connected regardless of the politics. This has the potential of coming back and bite the OP in one way or another. Best get it sorted, is what I say.

 

[219]

Firstly we are still part of the EU, and then going forward there may very well be a reciprocal agreement between the UK and EU in respect of driving offences, keeping in mind that this is also in the UK's interest to have this given the number of foreign lorries that cross the channel into the UK every year.

So I wouldn't suggest to ignore European fines, the world is becoming smaller and more connected regardless of the politics. This has the potential of coming back and bite the OP in one way or another. Best get it sorted, is what I say.

We are , for another month or so ; after that , there may equally not be any reciprocal arrangement re motoring offences ; especially since there is currently no mechanism for UK fines to be enforced in other member states ( so why should we roll over when they want to fine US ? ) .

While I might not ignore something where I knew I was guilty ; I would certainly consider it where I knew I was innocent ( as in the case of the OP , who happily has had this quashed anyway ) .

For a trivial matter coming from a country I was unlikely to visit again , I wouldn't bother ; much the same as these unenforceable speculative invoices from private parking management companies , which only have a usefulness if you either run out of toilet paper or need to light the fire .

 

[Deleted member 6183]

We are , for another month or so ; after that , there may equally not be any reciprocal arrangement re motoring offences ; especially since there is currently no mechanism for UK fines to be enforced in other member states ( so why should we roll over when they want to fine US ? ) .

While I might not ignore something where I knew I was guilty ; I would certainly consider it where I knew I was innocent ( as in the case of the OP , who happily has had this quashed anyway ) .

For a trivial matter coming from a country I was unlikely to visit again , I wouldn't bother ; much the same as these unenforceable speculative invoices from private parking management companies , which only have a usefulness if you either run out of toilet paper or need to light the fire .

You might want to reconsider your stance on the parking tickets, the situation has moved on.

 

[219]

You might want to reconsider your stance on the parking tickets, the situation has moved on.

I know it has in England , but thanks to differences in Scots Law , we can ignore them

 

[st13phil]

I know it has in England , but thanks to differences in Scots Law , we can ignore them

Don't be too smug. Keeper Liability for private parking tickets is enshrined in the Transport (Scotland) Bill, that received Royal Assent on 15th November.