Flash lights £175 - shoplift, just a caution...

[Palfrem]

BBC News - Cheeky Girl cautioned for shoplifting in Cheshire

Just about sums up this country really.

 

[MOCAŠ]

Just about sums up this country really.

 

[raymont]

A real criminal offence, stealing, and a warning.

36 in a 30 limit, no warning, no mercy, no account of conditions a fine and points.

Not really a proportional response is it?

 

[lancebond]

how about charging her with noise pollution orders for that tripe she released.

 

[Bellow]

A real criminal offence, stealing, and a warning.

36 in a 30 limit, no warning, no mercy, no account of conditions a fine and points.

Not really a proportional response is it?

Shoplifting never killed anyone. 36 in a 30 represents real danger to children who may not know the dangers. You are supposed to though.

Also, the police know the circumstances of her shoplifting - we don't.

 

[markjay]

Normally... the driver would have received a warning as well.

It seems that his insistence on taking-on the police and CPS is what caused his prosecution and subsequent conviction.

I am fairly certain that if Ms. Cheeky Girl would have given the officers a long speech about communism, capitalism, and equal sharing of wealth - resfusing to accept she did something wrong, and insisting she will do it again in future - she would have found herself in the same position as the driver.

 

[camerafodder]

I would imagine that she's probably mentally ill to be doing that. She probably needs help, not punishment.

 

[MOCAŠ]

A real criminal offence, stealing, and a warning.

36 in a 30 limit, no warning, no mercy, no account of conditions a fine and points.

Not really a proportional response is it?

Theft is a criminal offence, agreed. So is doing 36mph in a 30mph limit.

The report says the (alleged) shoplifter got a caution, not a warning. There's a significant difference, including the fact that a caution results in a criminal record and can affect future employment prospects. It's not a let-off, it's a way of avoiding unnecessary court costs. They are only issued to first-time offenders, and crucially, you first have to admit to the offence. So there was no chance of Thompson being issued with one.

But you're also comparing two different methods of enforcement. If a driver doing 36 in a 30 zone was stopped by police, there's every chance he'd get away with a just an informal reprimand and some advice about the potential consequences of excessive speed. And dare I say, the potential consequences of speeding are more serious than those of petty theft.

If, on the other hand, he's caught by a camera, then he's clearly ignored the warnings provided by the presence of both the camera and the speed limit signs.

 

[Meldrew2]

Shoplifting never killed anyone.

From The Independent, Saturday, 12 February 1994

A 60-year-old man collapsed and died after challenging three boys aged between eight and 10 who he saw shoplifting from a Tesco supermarket in Linslade, Bedfordshire. He had chased them to a car park.

It's even more common in the USA.... see this article, from the Huffington Post, 3 Feb, 2009


The media in Missouri reported Tuesday that a 38 year old caucasian man, identified as Russell S. Palmer, died Monday night, February 2nd while struggling with two Wal-Mart security guards as the result of an alleged shoplifting incident.

The fatality was a repetition of a similar death-by-shoplifting scene that took place less than two months ago in North Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, when 53 year old Patrick Donovan died while being wrestled to the pavement by Wal-Mart employees.

Before we rush to condemn Wal-Mart, check their employee handbook... "Great caution must be used in any shoplifting situation. If you suspect someone is shoplifting, maintain eye contact with the suspected shoplifter and notify a member of management. DO NOT, in any circumstance, accuse or try to apprehend a shoplifting suspect on your own. You may assist in the apprehension if directed to do so by a member of management or Loss Prevention."


And this one, from the Oakland Press, 12 October, 2010

Jurors convicted the man and woman who were involved in the Kmart shoplifting death of first-degree felony murder, which will bring a mandatory life-without-parole sentence.

James Dean Woodworth, 40, and Samantha Lorraine Lomasney, 20, were charged with first-degree felony murder in the death of a store security officer, who had tried to stop the pair from shoplifting $400 worth of CDs from the Waterford Township Kmart.

Both were convicted as charged just before 2:30 p.m. today. Sentencing is Nov. 23 in front of Oakland County Circuit Judge Leo Bowman.

 

[grober]

She's from Transylvania what do you expect? Staff got suspicious when they say her hanging round the Blutwurst section---- OK I made that bit up---- been watching too many Hammer house of horror movies.

 

[Meldrew2]

She's from Transylvania what do you expect?

There's quite a family resemblance........ :bannana:

 

[markjay]

I am not sure how this is related to the thread, but anyway I thought it would be interesting to know what exactly happened:

'Wainio, a resident of Gaines, worked at a Kmart in Waterford Township and tried to prevent Woodworth from stealing $400 worth of CDs. After taking the discs, Woodworth left the store and got in a waiting vehicle that Lomasney was driving. Wainio held onto the vehicle.

The vehicle accelerated, and Wainio was crushed when it struck pillars outside the store. He fell and was dragged. He died after suffering multiple blunt-force injuries.

Woodworth and Lomasney were each found guilty of first-degree felony murder and unarmed robbery. Lomasney’s jury also convicted her of operating a vehicle with a suspended or revoked license, causing death.'

 

[markjay]

Well, she's 20 years old and will get life-without-parole, and even more interesting is that her accomplice, of 40 years old, will get the same even though he was not actually driving the vehicle that killed the Loss Prevention officer. A friend of mine worked for a number of years for the Massachusetts' correction system, and he confirmed that without parole means without parole, period.

No doubt sentencing in the US in much harsher than in the UK. Here, Philip Lawrence's killer served just over 10 years and was a free man again (well, he was re-arrested for parole related offences, but that's another story).

 

[Charles Morgan]

The US takes joint endeavour very seriously, hence both getting the same.

 

[Bellow]

From The Independent, Saturday, 12 February 1994

A 60-year-old man collapsed and died after challenging three boys aged between eight and 10 who he saw shoplifting from a Tesco supermarket in Linslade, Bedfordshire. He had chased them to a car park.

It's even more common in the USA.... see this article, from the Huffington Post, 3 Feb, 2009


The media in Missouri reported Tuesday that a 38 year old caucasian man, identified as Russell S. Palmer, died Monday night, February 2nd while struggling with two Wal-Mart security guards as the result of an alleged shoplifting incident.

The fatality was a repetition of a similar death-by-shoplifting scene that took place less than two months ago in North Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, when 53 year old Patrick Donovan died while being wrestled to the pavement by Wal-Mart employees.

Before we rush to condemn Wal-Mart, check their employee handbook... "Great caution must be used in any shoplifting situation. If you suspect someone is shoplifting, maintain eye contact with the suspected shoplifter and notify a member of management. DO NOT, in any circumstance, accuse or try to apprehend a shoplifting suspect on your own. You may assist in the apprehension if directed to do so by a member of management or Loss Prevention."


And this one, from the Oakland Press, 12 October, 2010

Jurors convicted the man and woman who were involved in the Kmart shoplifting death of first-degree felony murder, which will bring a mandatory life-without-parole sentence.

James Dean Woodworth, 40, and Samantha Lorraine Lomasney, 20, were charged with first-degree felony murder in the death of a store security officer, who had tried to stop the pair from shoplifting $400 worth of CDs from the Waterford Township Kmart.

Both were convicted as charged just before 2:30 p.m. today. Sentencing is Nov. 23 in front of Oakland County Circuit Judge Leo Bowman.

A ridiculous comparison.

 

[raymont]

You are supposed to though.

Hope you don't mean me. It was a made up example ( but pretty common I assume).

Yes 36 in a 30 can be serious, and it can be trivial (2am deserted and you get done by a camera). Cameras don't take account of conditions. Shoplifter gets the benefit of all aspects of the incident being considered, the motorist doesn't.

 

[Bellow]

Hope you don't mean me. It was a made up example ( but pretty common I assume).

Yes 36 in a 30 can be serious, and it can be trivial (2am deserted and you get done by a camera). Cameras don't take account of conditions. Shoplifter gets the benefit of all aspects of the incident being considered, the motorist doesn't.

How do you know that there is no danger at 2am? As a child did you never finish a journey in the early hours of the morning?

The early hours of the morning are exactly when even greater vigilance is required. Apart from the dark, the absent minded with a drink in are less likely to remember their Green Cross Code. The danger is still there. Or does anyone with a drink in deserve to be run over for a small transgression?

I didn't mean you, but you seem prepared to defend speeding in a 30 limit, the primary reason of that limit being to protect those not encased in a steel shell - pedestrians, cyclists, and motorcyclists. Speeding in a 30 limit is utterly selfish - selfish way beyond shoplifting - and as mentioned elsewhere on this forum, if it all goes seriously wrong, comes with a jail sentence. As it should.

 

[st4]

Getting a bit holier than thou this thread eh

 

[Meldrew2]

From The Independent, Saturday, 12 February 1994

A 60-year-old man collapsed and died after challenging three boys aged between eight and 10 who he saw shoplifting from a Tesco supermarket in Linslade, Bedfordshire. He had chased them to a car park.

A ridiculous comparison.

So... if the same 60 year old man was driving at 36 mph in a 30, and the same boys ran in front of his car, while being chased by either the Police or Tesco security, who would you blame.

There is a comparison in this case at least, even if the ones from the USA are less comparable.

And before we castigate 36mph in a 30, let us remember it is only 1 mph above "10% +2"

And if the man was doing 30mph, the kids could still be killed - there's no magic formula that says the speed limit is safe.

 

[cazyp]

Fit girl with short shorts and long legs gets nicked for shoplifting - gets caution.
Fit girl with short shorts and long legs gets nicked for 36 in a 30 - gets let off with a warning.