France bans new Mercedes cars over 'greenhouse gases
Tazz666
Active Member
That will be the frenchies getting some revenge after WW2,lol
you rarely see Mercs in France .. I doubt that France is an important market for MB.
Dieselman
Banned
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This will be far reaching over the EU. Mercedes has already been told to comply with using the new gas and had a retro-fit on components and gas.
We covered this previously and it was found the new gas is ten times the cost of R134.
We covered this previously and it was found the new gas is ten times the cost of R134.
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Just fit them with one forward gear and seven reverse gears and remove the aircon.
That's the right spec for the French ...
That's the right spec for the French ...
Charles Morgan
MB Enthusiast
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It's because they found contemporary MB gearboxes confuse French drivers - they all remain halted while they work out whether to engage C for collaborate or S for surrender mode.
grober
MB Master
R1234yf refrigerant | 1234yf gas shortage | hfo1234yf | R134a ban
[YOUTUBE]WTGETJodYw0&feature=youtu.be[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]WTGETJodYw0&feature=youtu.be[/YOUTUBE]
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pipmk
Active Member
Oh yeh,does anyone think that French plod will be able to work out which foreign Merc on their road is fitted with the "wrong" gas ?
Having lived there and travelling an average of 4000 miles there every year I know that the average officer is eager not to stop a Brit because of the language problem, despite the apocryphal stories of "wars on Brits". You have to do something very blatant or stupid to get them interested.
Having lived there and travelling an average of 4000 miles there every year I know that the average officer is eager not to stop a Brit because of the language problem, despite the apocryphal stories of "wars on Brits". You have to do something very blatant or stupid to get them interested.
grober
MB Master
Ban will just be on new car sales in France no question of a general ban I don't think.I expect new Mercedes bought and registered under the dispensation in Germany will still be allowed. However with their much vaunted new QR sticker system BBC News - Mercedes-Benz adds QR codes to save car crash victims it should only take seconds for any interested " flic " to get the information.
grober
MB Master
DuPont and Honeywell have a pretty tight lock on the patents on HFO-1234yf. It costs up to 10 times more than the old R134a and requires different equipment to handle it. Changing to the new refrigerant over their complete product range does have cost implications to any manufacturer then and failing to do so would convey a distinct commercial advantage to any company- hence the new car ban on the trade "level playing field" argument I assume?
Is the new gas backwards compatible into existing systems designed for and currently using R134a , or are we going to see a repeat of the situation experienced by owners of vehicles with R12 systems which needed expensive conversion to use the new gas ?
grober
MB Master
About HFO-1234yf
-Developed and manufactured jointly by DuPont and Honeywell
-Has a Global Warming Potential (GWP) of just 4 – compared to 1300 for R134a
-The performance characteristics are very similar to R134a
-It is classed as mildly inflammable whereas R134a is classed as not flammable
-Lifespan if released to atmosphere is only 11 days compared with 13 years for R134a
-When stocks are available, the price will be higher than that of HFC R134a –at least initially, current cost is around €250 per kilo.
AACTA’s advice on R1234yf
It is highly likely that there will be very little servicing or repair requirements involving R1234yf until the middle of 2012. It is expected that a limited amount of dealers, predominantly larger franchise dealers will be equipped. Volumes will begin to grow steadily from the end of 2012 onwards.
It is essential to continue the serviceability and maintenance of existing R134a refrigerant management stations (RMS). The number of vehicles on the road with R134a will continue to grow for some years.
Prepare to invest in an RMS to handle R1234yf during 2012. The cost of the new R1234 units is much higher than the current R134a machines due to design requirements and safety features necessary. [ SPARKPROOF ELECTRICS??] The basic unit having an average cost of £4k and the advanced units with refrigerant identifiers built around the £5k price.
R134a will evidently be phased out gradually with 2017 being a quoted target date in new vehicles . I assume till then and quite possibly much later R134a will still be available?
R1234yf seems to be similar in many respects to R134a with the proviso its apparently more demanding in pulling an initial deep vacuum on the system and avoiding introducing moisture into the air conditioning system. As usual this will probably track back to a need for better compressor design/seals etc
-Developed and manufactured jointly by DuPont and Honeywell
-Has a Global Warming Potential (GWP) of just 4 – compared to 1300 for R134a
-The performance characteristics are very similar to R134a
-It is classed as mildly inflammable whereas R134a is classed as not flammable
-Lifespan if released to atmosphere is only 11 days compared with 13 years for R134a
-When stocks are available, the price will be higher than that of HFC R134a –at least initially, current cost is around €250 per kilo.
AACTA’s advice on R1234yf
It is highly likely that there will be very little servicing or repair requirements involving R1234yf until the middle of 2012. It is expected that a limited amount of dealers, predominantly larger franchise dealers will be equipped. Volumes will begin to grow steadily from the end of 2012 onwards.
It is essential to continue the serviceability and maintenance of existing R134a refrigerant management stations (RMS). The number of vehicles on the road with R134a will continue to grow for some years.
Prepare to invest in an RMS to handle R1234yf during 2012. The cost of the new R1234 units is much higher than the current R134a machines due to design requirements and safety features necessary. [ SPARKPROOF ELECTRICS??] The basic unit having an average cost of £4k and the advanced units with refrigerant identifiers built around the £5k price.
R134a will evidently be phased out gradually with 2017 being a quoted target date in new vehicles . I assume till then and quite possibly much later R134a will still be available?
R1234yf seems to be similar in many respects to R134a with the proviso its apparently more demanding in pulling an initial deep vacuum on the system and avoiding introducing moisture into the air conditioning system. As usual this will probably track back to a need for better compressor design/seals etc
OP
OP
AnimMerc
Active Member
The French are crying and it's all "kicking off"
French ban on Mercedes cars provokes German fury - FT.com
French ban on Mercedes cars provokes German fury - FT.com
OP
OP
AnimMerc
Active Member
I was in France last week and saw something regarding ban:
Daimler Wins French Court Ruling to Resume Vehicle Sales - Bloomberg
Daimler Wins French Court Ruling to Resume Vehicle Sales - Bloomberg
grober
MB Master
Some background info on R744 [ CARBON DIOXIDE]
Automakers Develop CO2-Based Air Conditioning · Environmental Management & Energy News · Environmental Leader
Evidently very high pressures are involved using CO2 as a refrigerant 30-200bar and high temperatures are involved at the compressor outlet 160deg C- however the system's greater heat transfer capability may mean it can be made smaller and the prospect of almost instant windscreen defrosting. My fear with new technology such as this presumably made possible with new precision engineering and materials would be their reliability at least in the initial phase.
Chapter 9: Carbon Dioxide (R744) The New Refrigerant (updated 8/4/2013)
Automakers Develop CO2-Based Air Conditioning · Environmental Management & Energy News · Environmental Leader
Evidently very high pressures are involved using CO2 as a refrigerant 30-200bar and high temperatures are involved at the compressor outlet 160deg C- however the system's greater heat transfer capability may mean it can be made smaller and the prospect of almost instant windscreen defrosting. My fear with new technology such as this presumably made possible with new precision engineering and materials would be their reliability at least in the initial phase.
Chapter 9: Carbon Dioxide (R744) The New Refrigerant (updated 8/4/2013)
