Gearbox program irritating!

[A.J.]

Whatever is on my 2017 car...so possibly 7G+?

A 2017 should be a 9G surely

 

[Spider10]

I'm pretty sure it's the 7g+ pre facelift mine is (late 2016)

 

[RJ C63]

9g came in on facelift late 2018 for C63/s

 

[c3nturi0n]

My advice would be to take it to a knowledgeable MB specialist to adapt the gearbox TCU (and clutch).

I recently had my car done and it transformed how it drives/shifts.

 

[Spider10]

Out of interest what does that entail ?

 

[whitenemesis]

Out of interest what does that entail ?

If it's anything like the 5g box, the adaptions are reset to factory using STAR and then the car has to be driven, with STAR connected, according to a strict program of speed and revs to get the TCU to relearn. Resetting the transmission adaptions isn't something that can be done by simple throttle and ignition sequences.

 

[Engadine]

If it's anything like the 5g box, the adaptions are reset to factory using STAR and then the car has to be driven, with STAR connected, according to a strict program of speed and revs to get the TCU to relearn. Resetting the transmission adaptions isn't something that can be done by simple throttle and ignition sequences.

Interesting, thank you both.
Will it unlearn, once you have a while of driving again? where I drive, you're often going very gently to 25 mph or 35 mph, and then need a little instantaneous zip to get into a gap, which you don't have enough of in 6th and 7th at those speeds. I also find it slightly annoying in general to have a car with such a beautiful engine and a gearbox making you run it at 1000 rpm. Gearboxes can't read your mind, and just because you've been driving gently for the last X minutes doesn't mean you don't want to have instant immediate power right now, without hurtling off into the sunset.
I don't need 600 hp in those situations, but I don't need 100 hp either.
What is the transmission like after relearning? It would be counterproductive if it ended up holding on to gears for no reason. The sweet spot of this engine as mine is starts at around 1300 rpm. That's where you want to be in C and slight throttle, not at 1000, but also not at 2000. That's what the factory engineers, who are no fools, would have done in previous times.

 

[c3nturi0n]

For comparison, I have ML350 diesel and CLS 63 - both are on 7G gearbox.

ML is super smooth and changes gears w/o noticing. CLS 63AMG is slightly 'jerky' in my opinion (especially after cold start and until engine/gearbox oil temp gets to 40 deg). I tried many other 63AMG's with MCT and they all exhibited that 'jerky' behavior.

I'm not sure why and whether it's intended, but in my humble opinion AMG should / would've done a better job of it.

Plus important point, any knowledgeable MB specialist (/main dealer) should be able to 'adapt' your gearbox to your driving style/preference.

 

[DSM10000]

For comparison, I have ML350 diesel and CLS 63 - both are on 7G gearbox.

ML is super smooth and changes gears w/o noticing. CLS 63AMG is slightly 'jerky' in my opinion (especially after cold start and until engine/gearbox oil temp gets to 40 deg). I tried many other 63AMG's with MCT and they all exhibited that 'jerky' behavior.

I'm not sure why and whether it's intended, but in my humble opinion AMG should / would've done a better job of it.

Plus important point, any knowledgeable MB specialist (/main dealer) should be able to 'adapt' your gearbox to your driving style/preference.

The MCT gearbox is fundamentally different from the 7g gearbox as it doesn't use a conventional torque convertor so you are not comparing like systems.

Modern gearboxes are adaptive to driving styles, I don't think that dealers can program a gearbox to a specific driving style?

 

[sgregory124]

For comparison, I have ML350 diesel and CLS 63 - both are on 7G gearbox.

ML is super smooth and changes gears w/o noticing. CLS 63AMG is slightly 'jerky' in my opinion (especially after cold start and until engine/gearbox oil temp gets to 40 deg). I tried many other 63AMG's with MCT and they all exhibited that 'jerky' behavior.

I'm not sure why and whether it's intended, but in my humble opinion AMG should / would've done a better job of it.

Plus important point, any knowledgeable MB specialist (/main dealer) should be able to 'adapt' your gearbox to your driving style/preference.

You're forgetting that the CLS63 is a performance car. It might share a gearbox with the ML350 but, power delivery, torque etc are very different so you can't expect the gearbox to behave in the same way and you certainly aren't comparing like for like. Many moons ago I had an E46 M3 (manual), the gearbox in that car was almost agricultural in operation when stone cold it was jerky, also jerky in traffic/low speed and it had lots of driveline shunt. Compare that to my bosses 330i at thetime (same age), the box on that was silky smooth from cold, in traffic etc etc

But, once you had the M3 warmed up and got on the move, it made total sense. Not trying to be disrespectful here but, they need to take some serious punishment and therefore I would imagine that some of the components are significantly upgraded to cope with the additional power.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Plus important point, any knowledgeable MB specialist (/main dealer) should be able to 'adapt' your gearbox to your driving style/preference.

Professionally resetting automatic gearbox adaptations using STAR is very different in purpose, nature and proceedure compared to the often quoted adaptation reset procedure on Mercedes forums the world over. Whilst both refer to the word “adaptation”, they’re not related.

As you would expect, at the factory automatic gearboxes are set-up as a brand new gearbox, ie with no wear at all. As the car is used and the transmission becomes worn over time it constantly adapts those settings to take wear into account, so for example clutch pack fill times and pressures are changed as it wears.

However in normal use these adaptions are deliberately very slow to change over time, and so if a worn component in the automatic transmission is replaced - either due to being worn or damaged - then it takes a very long time for the transmission to adapt. A specific procedure using STAR is therefore used to do this following repair.

Personally I would therefore be reluctant to reset the adaptations unless there has been a repair already performed, as it could temporarily mask a failure of accelerated wear which should be investigated and replaced before it becomes critical.

This is a world away from what is wrongly described as resetting gearbox adaptions on forums, that is to put the key in position II, and hold the accelerator to the floor for 10 seconds. This is said to reset the transmission to provide the quick gear changes which Mercedes/AMG intended.

It doesn’t. It fools the car into thinking the car has been stolen and is being driven at breakneck speeds to evade capture and so it sharpens it’s reactions accordingly, despite the fact the car is sat on the drive. When the engine is started it takes the car a little while to realise that it’s actually going to Waitrose rather than being chased by a Police helicopter and softens up again.

The gearbox does adapt to the drivers inputs and does this much more quickly as evidenced by the fact that 10 seconds at full throttle is enough to trigger it, and a few normal shifts is enough for it to adapt back to normal again, once the driver drives normally and not like a joyrider. The word adaption is used but it’s not the same thing.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

For comparison, I have ML350 diesel and CLS 63 - both are on 7G gearbox.

ML is super smooth and changes gears w/o noticing. CLS 63AMG is slightly 'jerky' in my opinion (especially after cold start and until engine/gearbox oil temp gets to 40 deg). I tried many other 63AMG's with MCT and they all exhibited that 'jerky' behavior.

Multi-clutch transmissions will always feel less smooth than one fitted with a torque converter, they’re referred to as slush boxes for a reason!

 

[c3nturi0n]

My opinion is that 80k plus cars should not feel jerky under any condition.

 

[Engadine]

Well, my 9 spd box is extremely smooth. Beautiful. Super responsive to kickdown also and creamy silken. The box itself is as magnificent as the car. To achieve that in a 600hp V8 TT - extra astonishing. It may be the best gearbox I have ever encountered.

But the programme in C is nuts. However, through everything I have heard here and from Mercedes, there is nothing that can be done.

This is not a Mercedes issue. Ferraris, McLarens, Lamborghinis, 992s, all do the same in their comfort modes or equivalents. I was mind boggled to see how the F8 changed up to 7th at 30-something on a country lane. WTF? It felt as limp as 1.4 litre Fiat Tipo rental car from 1993. 720S, Huracan, RS6, all the same. It’s all about emissions.

But you could make a convincing argument that supercars should not be driven in comfort/equivalent. Not for a C63. It’s a car for all purposes and its C mode should have had a slightly different program.

We’re all paying the price for manufacturer deceit in “VW-gate” (in which Mercedes was also culpable). Worse in the most recent models, I guess coinciding with GPF/PPF.

It’s still a kind of cheating. Outright performance in my car is absolutely astonishing. Gearbox is superb. But nobody drives a 510hp AMG (my car is 600hp but the box is made for the standard model) like a great grandmother in C mode.

Finally, after this rant (sorry), I should add that this is a very marginal issue. Not only is the car with the Brabus upgrades absolutely mind blowing in every way (more details soon!), I realise also that most people don’t spend their driving lives with the restrictions I have to deal with. Live in the countryside and blast every day? You won’t notice this issue.

 

[sgregory124]

My opinion is that 80k plus cars should not feel jerky under any condition.

That’s a nice utopian view of things, but simply not possible.

If you want a performance car, with super smooth transmission and no jerkiness, then good luck finding one - they don’t exist.

It should be pretty obvious that you don’t get fast changes without a modicum of jerkiness, or rough engagement, just think about what you’re asking the gearbox to do and at what speed? Hundreds of moving parts…..

I happen to love the quirkiness of the odd rough shift and a bit of shunt here and there, it reminds me I’m not driving a cooking model C-Class…..

 

[Engadine]

That’s a nice utopian view of things, but simply not possible.

If you want a performance car, with super smooth transmission and no jerkiness, then good luck finding one - they don’t exist.

It should be pretty obvious that you don’t get fast changes without a modicum of jerkiness, or rough engagement, just think about what you’re asking the gearbox to do and at what speed? Hundreds of moving parts…..

I happen to love the quirkiness of the odd rough shift and a bit of shunt here and there, it reminds me I’m not driving a cooking model C-Class…..

I suppose this all depends on what you mean by "super smooth". However the latest generation of performance cars do have very smooth gearboxes. The 9 speed on my new C63S is as smooth as butter. The same goes for the S63/65, Bentley Conti, Bentayga, RR Ghost Black Badge, Panamera Turbo S..etc, in their most "comfort" mode of transmission. They are just as smooth as the lower performance versions of the same cars where applicable; S63 gearbox is as smooth as a diesel S class for example.

The 9 speed in my C63 is in a different league of smooth to the 7 speed in my W204 C63.

Even the different types of gearbox in Ferraris, McLarens, Lambos etc are pretty smooth in their most comfortable state of tune, albeit they are a different type of car. You still get the thump in the back in race mode.

Whether smooth is desirable is another question! I find it very odd driving an Italian supercar with imperceptible shifts and always switch to a more hardcore mode so I can feel the shifts. And in manual mode in my new C63S, comfort setting is also too smooth, if I want to change gears with paddles, like you, I want to feel it. But not like an old BMW SMG 1 or 2 or Ferrari F1, that was dreadful.

 

[sgregory124]

Whether smooth is desirable is another question! I find it very odd driving an Italian supercar with imperceptible shifts and always switch to a more hardcore mode so I can feel the shifts. And in manual mode in my new C63S, comfort setting is also too smooth, if I want to change gears with paddles, like you, I want to feel it. But not like an old BMW SMG 1 or 2 or Ferrari F1, that was dreadful.

Agreed - smooth changes are fine, in an everyday car where you want the experience to be as smooth as possible with zero hassle (i.e for commuting etc).

But otherwise, I want some kind of hint that i'm driving something special. A friend of mine bought a Golf R last year (switching from a current model Fiesta ST) and sent it back to the dealer within 72 hours, even though he'd wanted one for ages. He was completely underwhelmed by it, no real involvement and too 'smooth'/dull/boring, although that might just be because it was a Golf R

 

[Spider10]

Your description of the golf R is spot on they are totally boring with no drama infact as ive said previously a 10 year old could drivr 1

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Modern high performance cars have multiple driving modes to enable smooth through to aggressive, which in some cases is transformative, and some manufacturers even engineer in the bump in the back when shifting gear.

I personally drive in Comfort mode 99% of the time, as I like everything about fast cars, but I still want them to be relatively refined, and certainly more relaxing than aggressive to drive - thankfully AMG are brilliant at Jekyll & Hyde and always have been.

 

[Engadine]

Modern high performance cars have multiple driving modes to enable smooth through to aggressive, which in some cases is transformative, and some manufacturers even engineer in the bump in the back when shifting gear.

I personally drive in Comfort mode 99% of the time, as I like everything about fast cars, but I still want them to be relatively refined, and certainly more relaxing than aggressive to drive - thankfully AMG are brilliant at Jekyll & Hyde and always have been.

Absolutely agree. I love the fact that in C, you are in a very fast, lairy, slightly soft muscle car, this applies to both the W204 and 205. A bit of Mustang. A bit unruly. And then in S+, it's very tight and controlled (Unless you dont want it to be!). The other German performance saloons are only Hyde. Very perfect, which makes them, by and large, less fun.