Graphics card

[Satch]

I am confused. No. 2 son wanted for his birthday money a game that we find even with everything turned right down and a 640 X480 resolution runs really badly. Unplayable in fact.

Looks on the forums for that game and sure enough sees everybody moaning about it and how they need minimum 3.0 Pentium 4's with 2Gb memory and a high end water cooled graphics card to make it run "properly". Even those with 64 bit systems have a problem unless they have a mega Graphics Card. Yet the "suggested" spec is a 3.0 P4 (tick) with 1 Gb of memory (tick) and the very type of Graphics Card we have that is running (not just compatable with) DirectX 9.0c(tick)

So on the way to work this morning drop into retailer and try to return it. They decline a refund on the grounds that misrepresentation of the required spec is nothing to do with them. Will do an exchange or a voucher to full value but not a refund.

Am I missing something here?

 

[SEM]

Whats the Game and the graphics card, Nvidia or ATI? Some games have issues with certain manufacture cards they have not tested and sometimes its a pain to go through the correct available drivers that suite. I cant justify having to back date drivers for games that manufacturers cant be bothered to test

 

[DieselE]

 

[grober]

Nvidia or ATI? sometimes the problem is the "pipe" to the graphics card isnt fast enough. cos the bus connecting the processor to the graphics card just cant cope. Some of the newer graphics cards need extra power via another power cable to work properly and the computer power supply isnt up to it. Nvidia or ATI cards can do things quite differently and has been said with different results. Nvidia gets my vote over Ati for this sort of problem but its a minefield.

 

[BTB 500]

its a minefield.

Yup. That's one reason why a lot of people (me included) stick to consoles for gaming!

 

[masqueraid]

Need to know what game you are talking about. The issue is usually with a feature called pixel shading which is used to create things like water effects on screen. This needs a lot of processing power so is handed over to the chips in the graphics card to deal with.

The difference between running with 9.0c & being compatible is crucial, you must read the minimum specs on the game boxes and (sorry) understand what they mean. I know of several very disappointed players of Oblivion whose existing graphics cards just couldn't cope & the game will then end up costing you another £60 at least to get running.

 

[PJH]

Very bad that the retailer wouldn't refund you.

 

[Satch]

Sadly the game is indeed Oblivion. Graphics card is an nvidea geforce 6200 with 256Mb. On the list but clearly not up to it.

Can someone explain in simple terms the difference between AGP & PCI Express (?) graphics cards. I really could not follow what the bloke in the shop was trying to tell me. Are both capable of use in any PC?

 

[grober]

PCI EXPRESS is a more modern type of graphics bus found on newer computers which is faster than the older AGP. You cant change this without changing the motherboard. Most of the newer AGP graphics cards are derivatives of designs for PCI express but to allow them to work on AGP type mother boards have an additional "translation "layer of circuitry added to the PCI architecture. This added complexity is just one more potential bottleneck to slow everything down.
Told you it was a minefield. Your computer manual specification pages will tell you which graphics bus you have. some good reviews here.http://tomshardware.co.uk/2006/05/08/2006_graphics_card_buyers_guide_part1_uk/

 

[SEM]

Your motherboard could be limiting your graphics card to 64meg maximum if AGP.. Making the card pointless

Try this to test your graphics card, you'll see it's performance
http://www.futuremark.com/download/3dmark06/

 

[GregE240]

Christ, don't get me started on this.

Bought Tom (my stepson - 12 y/o) a PC last year. Onboard graphics seemed fine. He goes and buys a LOTR game, it plays fine. We don't see him for about 6 weeks, which was nice (!), so he asks for the sequel for his birthday back at the beginning of June. Guess what? It won't work. Tom wanted to take it back to the shop and get another copy, in spite of me explaining his poor old onboard card wasn't up to the job.

Answer? Shelled out £60 on a new graphics card. Game now plays. Happy chappie.

Games consoles are sooo much easier - graphics are pretty much as good, but at least you know when you get your PS/2 XBox game home, it'll work!!

You have my sympathies Satch!!

 

[GregE240]

Try this to test your graphics card, you'll see it's performance
http://www.futuremark.com/download/3dmark06/

580Mb??

Er....whats the point? He already knows his current card /PC can't hack it...

 

[SEM]

580Mb??

Er....whats the point? He already knows his current card /PC can't hack it...

Blimey never used to be that big.. will check again.. Just wondering down the driver option forceware version

Try this
http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=9175

 

[andy_k]

it's always worth experimenting with a couple of different versions of the Nvidia drivers. Sometimes rolling back to the previous version can help and other times it's worth downloading a Beta or tweaked version from a games site.

Andy

 

[masqueraid]

Satch, you should be able to get Oblivion running with the 6200 even though the performance won't be great it should be playable. The 6000 chipset is supported (even though good performance starts at about the 6600GT).

Make sure you have the latest Forceware Driver installed from nVidia
http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/91.31/91.31_winxp2kmce_english_whql.exe

And install Bethesda's 1.1 patch for Oblivion which sorts out a lot of the graphics problems:
http://elderscrolls.com/downloads/updates_patches.htm

Make sure you have a fair amount of free space on the drive you are playing from & start with the graphics setting low and gradually push them up until you have a balance between visual quality and game performance.

As for PCI-E vs. AGP they are just different sockets to plug the cards into, older boards will have AGP, newer PCI-E. Not interchangable - so if you buy a new graphics card you need to know which type you have already.

Post again or pm me if you need any help.

M )

 

[Satch]

I am wondering if much of the issue is down to a point in the link to a forum SEM kindly posted:

"....don't be discouraged by the framerate in the starting jailcell. There's something there that really kills performance. It gets better once you get out into the tunnels."

That is precisely where No 2 son was having trouble. it was not so much FPS as Seconds Per Frame and the whole thing was locking up.

I shall check on the drivers. Good job I kept the game!


Thanks all


S.

 

[Satch]

Arrrgghh! This is a real PITA.

Did the game patch and glory be things improved. Then did the nvidia driver update and not only did the game performance degrade but general system performance did as well!

Rolled back to the earlier driver and everything back to normal. The nvidia "one size fits all" driver approach clearly has drawbacks. May work well with their newer cards but perhaps the legacy kit gets hampered by the extra whistles and bells.

 

[SEM]

Arrrgghh! This is a real PITA

Yep they are.. it's trying to find the correct one that suites your system (usually people on forums will tell you what drivers are ok)

An alternative driver set which a lot of gamers are turning to
http://www.omegadrivers.net/main.php
may be worth a look