HELP!! I bought a merc with outstanding finance on it!!
- Thread starter KLP 92
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Ian B Walker
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My daughter once had a car reposessed. They took it from her drive and used a screwdriver to open the door 
I had to deal with the company as she was in Hospital. I paid the outstanding and had to travel to Manchester to recover the car. Damage I found was broken lock, dented door and missing sterio. I asked about the damage and was told that the car was already like that. I argued the case but got nowhere. In hindsight I should have done something more posative but to be honest at that time was more concerned about my daughter. The repo company said at the time that they had tried to phone, sent a letter and even sent a person round to negotiate. All false.
I had to deal with the company as she was in Hospital. I paid the outstanding and had to travel to Manchester to recover the car. Damage I found was broken lock, dented door and missing sterio. I asked about the damage and was told that the car was already like that. I argued the case but got nowhere. In hindsight I should have done something more posative but to be honest at that time was more concerned about my daughter. The repo company said at the time that they had tried to phone, sent a letter and even sent a person round to negotiate. All false.
Satch
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Well worth looking at this:
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem.cgi?file=ADV0003-1011.txt
This is the most important bits as far as you are concerned:
"PRIVATE SALES
The Consumer Credit Act 1974 gives 'good title' to the innocent private purchaser of a car which later turns out to be subject to a claim by a finance company because of a previous unpaid hire purchase or conditional sale agreement. This means that the finance company which is claiming the money cannot usually repossess the car against your will".
Given that the finance company failed to register the HP agreement in the first place their case against you is even weaker thanks to a concept known as Estoppel By Negligence. (i.e they screwed up so may be "estopped" from claiming title before you even get to the protections of the Consumer Credit Act)
Go through this as well
http://www.spr-law.com/site/lnsale.pdf
(No, not really!! Page 75, Section 7.11 "Sale of Motor vehicles on Hire Purchase")
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem.cgi?file=ADV0003-1011.txt
This is the most important bits as far as you are concerned:
"PRIVATE SALES
The Consumer Credit Act 1974 gives 'good title' to the innocent private purchaser of a car which later turns out to be subject to a claim by a finance company because of a previous unpaid hire purchase or conditional sale agreement. This means that the finance company which is claiming the money cannot usually repossess the car against your will".
Given that the finance company failed to register the HP agreement in the first place their case against you is even weaker thanks to a concept known as Estoppel By Negligence. (i.e they screwed up so may be "estopped" from claiming title before you even get to the protections of the Consumer Credit Act)
Go through this as well
http://www.spr-law.com/site/lnsale.pdf
(No, not really!! Page 75, Section 7.11 "Sale of Motor vehicles on Hire Purchase")
OP
OP
KLP 92
MB Enthusiast
UPDATE
AA have stated they can do nothing as they are claiming its all the finance company's fault. They have stated they cannot be held liable as when the data check was done there was no finance showing on the car as the finance company did not register it with the finace register. They have simply stated that once i send all the info requested by the finance company to them they will have to remove the car of their register as its their fault. I have asked the AA to put this in writing in case things need to go further.
I have forwarded a photocopy of the V5, a copy of the AA data check and a purchase receipt from the original owner as requested by the finance company. Haven't heard anything back from them yet but finger's crossed.
I will keep you updated.
AA have stated they can do nothing as they are claiming its all the finance company's fault. They have stated they cannot be held liable as when the data check was done there was no finance showing on the car as the finance company did not register it with the finace register. They have simply stated that once i send all the info requested by the finance company to them they will have to remove the car of their register as its their fault. I have asked the AA to put this in writing in case things need to go further.
I have forwarded a photocopy of the V5, a copy of the AA data check and a purchase receipt from the original owner as requested by the finance company. Haven't heard anything back from them yet but finger's crossed.
I will keep you updated.
THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS
If the AA is correct on this (and they are not, as far as I can see from the terms and conditions on the web-site), it means that they would NEVER have to pay out (since why would anyone buy a car with finance on it), and make the data check almost completely WORTHLESS (since you can't claim if THEY and/or their data source has made a mistake). The whole point of the Data Check is to protect you against exactly what is happening.
When you get the letter from the AA denying liability, write back telling them you reject their reasoning completely, ask them to provide the basis (ie. refer to the clause in their contract) for their assertion, and tell them you will sue them, and make a huge fuss.
OUTRAGEOUS If the AA is correct on this (and they are not, as far as I can see from the terms and conditions on the web-site), it means that they would NEVER have to pay out (since why would anyone buy a car with finance on it), and make the data check almost completely WORTHLESS (since you can't claim if THEY and/or their data source has made a mistake). The whole point of the Data Check is to protect you against exactly what is happening.
When you get the letter from the AA denying liability, write back telling them you reject their reasoning completely, ask them to provide the basis (ie. refer to the clause in their contract) for their assertion, and tell them you will sue them, and make a huge fuss.
KLP 92 said:
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Merc with o/s finance
I agree with Satch. Some years ago I bought a car privately and later discovered that there was £ 6000 H.P. outstanding on it. I contacted the HP company and they said as I was a private buyer (not trade) it was OK and that they would chase after the previous owner who owed the HP.
I agree with Satch. Some years ago I bought a car privately and later discovered that there was £ 6000 H.P. outstanding on it. I contacted the HP company and they said as I was a private buyer (not trade) it was OK and that they would chase after the previous owner who owed the HP.
Kinky
MB Enthusiast
I assume you are an AA member - and if so, phone their legal support department.
Then explain the situation without mentioning names (specifically them). Might be interesting to note what they advise!
K
Then explain the situation without mentioning names (specifically them). Might be interesting to note what they advise!
K
I'm sure it will all get sorted out for you.
But don't believe a word the AA say about not being able to claim against them, ultimately the courts are there to decide who is at fault, but I don't think it will come to that.
If lines of communication are kept open with finance company I wouldn't worry about the car being taken.
Fingers crossed
But don't believe a word the AA say about not being able to claim against them, ultimately the courts are there to decide who is at fault, but I don't think it will come to that.
If lines of communication are kept open with finance company I wouldn't worry about the car being taken.
Fingers crossed
I'd see if you can get a refund for that data check.C240Sport97 said:
I've had a couple of AA car checks done, the physical inspection type checks, but I always had the HPI check done separately. In this case the HPI check would have come back clear too though.
In future when buying a car I will have the seller sign a statement declaring all kinds of things before handing any money over, that way if it comes to something like this situation "good faith" is backed up with some nice signed documents.
Don't ask for the refund until it is all sorted. Otherwise, they can argue that by giving you a refund, you never got a data check, and they have no liability towards you.
Shude said:
OP
OP
KLP 92
MB Enthusiast
Shude said:
I have a receipt signed by the original owner that i purchased the car off, clearly stating that there is no finace on this vehicle and that the vehicle is his to sell. At the end he said the vehicle is sold for £X amount in good faith.
This is before the AA check was done. It shows you can never 100% trust anyone when you are buying a car so a HPI test is a DEFINATE! If i didn't have one done i wouldn't have had a case of any type against anyone as the finance company would not have admitted that it was their fault by not putting the car on the register.
As far as i was concerned at the time of purchase the car was his to sell to me. This was fully supported by the AA data check which was carried out before completion of sale.
FURTHER UPDATE
A letter came through from the finance company in the moirning stating that unless i prove where the money came from then they will be taking further action against me and repo the car! They also want to know why i paid £2000 less than the book value for the car. Only if they are satisfied with the above 2 then they will stop proceedings against me! So much for them noit coming to repo my car.
So much for the straight forward resloution!
I will be seeking further legal advice to find out exactly where i stand.
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johnpritt
Member
I don't think that it is any business of the finance comapny where you got your money from, or how much you paid for the car. This is just intimidation on their part. On the other hand, you can't just ignore the letter. Have you taken any legal advice yet? The sooner you can get some legalese thrown back at them, the better. At the moment, it seems that they feel they've got the upper hand. You need to put them back in their place.
Satch
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They are trying in clumsy fashion to prove that you were not acting "in good faith" and therefore have no protection under the Consumer Credit Act. Well, pardon me for saying so, but that letter must have been written by a half wit going through the administrative motions.
1. They acted Negligently by not registering the finanace with HPI in the first place. They are probably estopped from seeking title to the car anyway per either postings.
2. In court it would be up to them to prove you were not acting in good faith in order to disapply your very clear protections under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act and so get title to the car.
(So if they do manage to repo the car then it will effectively be up to you to prove you were acting in good faith in order to get it back. Challenge their right to do so, hide the car and it is then up to them to prove you were not acting in good faith. He who attests must prove!)
3. You had an AA check carried out for the express purpose of discovering if finance was outstanding. You paid for this and it is reasonable to assume that you were entitled to rely wholly upon the result. Since that showed no indication of HP o/s (thanks of course to the negligence of the finance company) and the vendor also told you this was the case, unless there is positive evidence they can present of your having acted in cahoots with the vendor the chances of them proving you were not acting in good faith are, IMHO, approaching zero.
Hide the car, tell them nothing at all, send a formal "get lost" response (best it comes from your lawyer) and it should ultimately all go away. (I say ultimately because you will keep getting these stupid letters until somebody higher up in their food chain realises this is a complete waste of time and tells them to stop. The muppets in a debt recovery office keep going until that happens. Sad, really)
1. They acted Negligently by not registering the finanace with HPI in the first place. They are probably estopped from seeking title to the car anyway per either postings.
2. In court it would be up to them to prove you were not acting in good faith in order to disapply your very clear protections under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act and so get title to the car.
(So if they do manage to repo the car then it will effectively be up to you to prove you were acting in good faith in order to get it back. Challenge their right to do so, hide the car and it is then up to them to prove you were not acting in good faith. He who attests must prove!)
3. You had an AA check carried out for the express purpose of discovering if finance was outstanding. You paid for this and it is reasonable to assume that you were entitled to rely wholly upon the result. Since that showed no indication of HP o/s (thanks of course to the negligence of the finance company) and the vendor also told you this was the case, unless there is positive evidence they can present of your having acted in cahoots with the vendor the chances of them proving you were not acting in good faith are, IMHO, approaching zero.
Hide the car, tell them nothing at all, send a formal "get lost" response (best it comes from your lawyer) and it should ultimately all go away. (I say ultimately because you will keep getting these stupid letters until somebody higher up in their food chain realises this is a complete waste of time and tells them to stop. The muppets in a debt recovery office keep going until that happens. Sad, really)
jimti
Active Member
As you contracted the AA to carry out the Data Check, they are liable no matter what they say. It is their responsibility to pursue the finance company for any losses the AA incur through the Finance company's negligence to register your car on the finance register. The fact that the AA are in correspondence with the finance company shows that they are concerned that a claim against the AA might be imminent.KLP 92 said:
As others have said, get a solicitor involved and consider sending a claim to the AA to cover any legal expenses you incur as they seem to be trying to leave you to sort out their mess
hmm sounds like the AA don't know what their own datacheck is for.
I would do as other suggest, keep the vehicle elsewhere in a lock up. They are highly unlikely to break into somebody elses lock up (tresspass etc).
Also, when the finance was taken out on the car, why didn't the finance company register it as most do within a few working days. At the end of the day they will have credit checked whoever too the finance inthe first place.
I have heard scenarios where a car has been sold after its finance has been written off. Let me explain....
Mr A buys a car in January for £5000. He decides he doesnt want it anymore and stops payments in May. Credit company asks why he isn't paying, he says the car is damaged (he had an accident and was his fault hence car now worth £1500) even though the damage may only be a front wing. Finance company think the following.
1. Dont want back a damaged car.
2. Not getting paid, so breach of agreement. Take Mr A to court.
They go to court, Mr A agrees to pay £x/week as settlement. The car then technically has been settled under the agreement at court, and since the original contract was breached (and now settled under an agreement to pay at court). So the car is then taken off the register.
If it is ever sold on, the company gets wind of it and they sometimes just try to pursue the new owner. Its usually a hollow effort but you know how those repo lot are like!
Hope all gets sorted mate!
bit more.....
Acting in good faith when buying the car you did everything reasonable I assume that a 'reasonable man' in law terms would do prior to buying.
Some of those things would include..
1. Check the address on the log book and where you are buying it from.
2. Do any neccessary background check on the car (HPi etc)
3. Check chassis/engine numbers correlate with the car / logbook.
4. Taking a receipt of sale when you bought the car
All of which I think you have done, which anybody reasonable would do.
When they are asking for how you paid, they are trying to seek for evidence that the vehicle has changed hands for a price (sometimes it happens when a fraudster wants to move the vehicle around hance no money changes hands) so it might not be a bad idea to show that bit of it (ie withdrawal from bank.) They also would like to see money changed hands so they can pursue the seller for the funds basically.
I think the first step would be to contact a soicitor get a nice strong letter along the lines of....the finance company have compromised the safety and security of your purchase, cost you valuable time and money as well as any other associated costs by not correctly registering the vehicle with the finance register. Let them know that you will pursue them for any fees incurred resolving the matter. i think they will get the message.
I would do as other suggest, keep the vehicle elsewhere in a lock up. They are highly unlikely to break into somebody elses lock up (tresspass etc).
Also, when the finance was taken out on the car, why didn't the finance company register it as most do within a few working days. At the end of the day they will have credit checked whoever too the finance inthe first place.
I have heard scenarios where a car has been sold after its finance has been written off. Let me explain....
Mr A buys a car in January for £5000. He decides he doesnt want it anymore and stops payments in May. Credit company asks why he isn't paying, he says the car is damaged (he had an accident and was his fault hence car now worth £1500) even though the damage may only be a front wing. Finance company think the following.
1. Dont want back a damaged car.
2. Not getting paid, so breach of agreement. Take Mr A to court.
They go to court, Mr A agrees to pay £x/week as settlement. The car then technically has been settled under the agreement at court, and since the original contract was breached (and now settled under an agreement to pay at court). So the car is then taken off the register.
If it is ever sold on, the company gets wind of it and they sometimes just try to pursue the new owner. Its usually a hollow effort but you know how those repo lot are like!
Hope all gets sorted mate!
bit more.....
Acting in good faith when buying the car you did everything reasonable I assume that a 'reasonable man' in law terms would do prior to buying.
Some of those things would include..
1. Check the address on the log book and where you are buying it from.
2. Do any neccessary background check on the car (HPi etc)
3. Check chassis/engine numbers correlate with the car / logbook.
4. Taking a receipt of sale when you bought the car
All of which I think you have done, which anybody reasonable would do.
When they are asking for how you paid, they are trying to seek for evidence that the vehicle has changed hands for a price (sometimes it happens when a fraudster wants to move the vehicle around hance no money changes hands) so it might not be a bad idea to show that bit of it (ie withdrawal from bank.) They also would like to see money changed hands so they can pursue the seller for the funds basically.
I think the first step would be to contact a soicitor get a nice strong letter along the lines of....the finance company have compromised the safety and security of your purchase, cost you valuable time and money as well as any other associated costs by not correctly registering the vehicle with the finance register. Let them know that you will pursue them for any fees incurred resolving the matter. i think they will get the message.
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