How best to get someones attention...

[neilrr]

So when the M1 had all the roadworks at Luton, and these could be as long as 3 miles. You would drive down the lane that was going to eventually close. If everyone thought 'feck it' there jumping the queue and all decided to jump into this lane that would cause huge delays. (forget that would leave the other lanes empty)

Let's have a little think about this one. In your example 2 lanes are being reduced to 1, or 3 to 2, not really sure or that it matters.

On the one hand I can sit in a queue that starts 3 miles before the lanes merge or on the other hand I can drive down the completely empty lane next to the queue bound lane & merge easily & safely a hundred or two hundred yards from the choke point without impeding traffic flow at all, as I do every single time when I join the M25 from the E. bound M4.

That is a tough one.

215m3 if you are unhappy with the rule write to your MP & the Highways Agency. This discussion is going around in circles.

 

[st4]

As in any queueing situation, whether it is in a Post Office, bus stop or a approaching a single lane for traffic the fair polite system is FIRST COME FIRST SERVED. Not I'll go up the side of the queue and just barge in front of those who were here before me. Such behaviour does not increase the number of vehicles able to pass through the restriction, it just offers the ignorant selfish driver a chance to gain an unfair advantage over decent respectful drivers.

Remember FIRST COME FIRST SERVED.

Oh you do make me laugh sometimes

So on a dual carriage way do you not overtake a car in lane 1 doing 50 when you want to do 60. They were there before you, but I take it you won't pass as you don't want to be "ignortant and selfish" and gain an "unfair advantage" (getting to your journeys end sooner) by overtaking

Of course you'd overtake, and doing as I suggest and driving upto the cones or as near as safely possible is overtaking. The road is still a dual carriageway until the point its closed and if some wallies decide to queue up in 1 lane and be polite to each other then thats cool, I'll just drive past and merge in when its safe further up

 

[Marque]

Here's a real-world situation that is analogous to the lane closing conundrum. Anyone who has arrived on a long-haul flight into Heathrow early in the morning may recognise it.

You have just arrived at an airport following an international flight. You walk to Passport Control and find that there are two queues that lead to the same group of manned desks. (There are two queues because passengers can enter the hall from different directions.) Being an observant person, you notice that there is a single guard at the front of both queues who directs each passenger to an available desk. You also notice that he does this alternately, i.e. directing a passenger from each queue in turn. One queue is so long that it is causing congestion at an entrance to the hall. The other is much shorter, but the back of that queue is further away.

Anyone who tells me that they would choose the longer queue out of 'fairness' or 'politeness' is lying. In fact, it would help to relieve the congestion at the entrance if the queues were the same length, so walking over to the shorter queue would make me feel virtuous.

 

[215m3]

Have you now read the scientific studies to which I have referred? Have you interpreted their results and reached a different result to that reached by the scientists who conducted them?
If not, then may I suggest that you are voicing opinions and not facts when you state that using all the lanes will "cause huge delays".

I don't need to because i have seen it at first hand how it does not work. Driving past stationary traffic waiting to go through road works where there are too many vehicles to flow at the rate a 3 lane road can carry to a one lane.

I suppose my experince will come into question, but having covered 104k miles a year for 5 years i have come across many traffic jams.

The ones where everyone queued on the lanes going through the road works flowed far better, a slow speed, approaching the closed lane, of 10-20 can be maintained and progress is being made.

In the incidences where the lane being closed was used it is stop start and this is where there are more chances of having an accident. Now none of want to be involved in an accident, but when folk are in these situations they switch of as such and bang a cars pulled in front of them, they brake and the car behind hits them. Seen it a few times.

***, grow up. it's not about not passing a car doing 50mph on free flowing roads. It's about passing cars that are in a queue to go through the road works. The rason why the cars you are overtaking that are 200 to 400 yards from the neck of the road works are going so slow is there is traffic in front of them stopping them going any faster. By overtaking these you put yourself in the bracket of 'w****r' in may folks eyes.

I had someone try this to me not long ago. As he approched the cones he tried to force his way in. We all refused and he then indicated to me to pull over onto the hard shoulder? I just gave him the bird. He was not happy at all. You put yourself into the bracket. I was in an old BMW which i didn't care about. He tried to swerve into me to make me give way, but stood my ground. He ended up 4 cars behind me. So he tried it on with about 8 cars. That to me is more factual that it does not work.

It's not a case of being unhappy. It's a case of being polite and courteous, which many of you have proven you are not. You slag Range Rover drivers and BMW's but your just as bad. The Mercedes Driver is the new BMW driver. I am not catagorising every Mercedes owner.

The highway code is a guide and not a rule. If you want to just follow what it states then you are guilty of not improving your driving ability and awareness and infact the sheep someone earlier mentioned.

MSM is something you need to complete when you take your test. You don't necessarily need to signal everytime you change direction or lane. It is an intention and not a right! I bet many just put the indicator on thinking hey everyone else will see it and know what i am doing. This proves a complete lack of vision, which makes up a huge part of driving.

 

[215m3]

Let's have a little think about this one. In your example 2 lanes are being reduced to 1, or 3 to 2, not really sure or that it matters.

On the one hand I can sit in a queue that starts 3 miles before the lanes merge or on the other hand I can drive down the completely empty lane next to the queue bound lane & merge easily & safely a hundred or two hundred yards from the choke point without impeding traffic flow at all, as I do every single time when I join the M25 from the E. bound M4.

But by doing this is has a knock on effect behind you. If Everyone did this then it would jam up.

Some folk are just so narrow visioned on their actions.

 

[prprandall51]

Have you now read the scientific studies to which I have referred?

I don't need to because i have seen it at first hand how it does not work.

Some folk are just so narrow visioned on their actions.

Well, I would say that somebody who ignores the guidance of the Highways Agency, ignores the advice of the Highway Code and ignores the conclusions of a scientific study of a subject upon which he is highly opinionated simply because the results do not sit comfortably with his view on the matter could easily be described as "narrow visioned in their actions".

 

[215m3]

I bet i could judge the folk on here that are for driving down the closed lane to the cones do the following: -

While waiting for their luggauge at the belts in an airport, they stand right up against the edge of the belt carrier. Now a full flight of folk would not fit all they round the edge as described. 'need to get my luggague and be off!'

I patiently sit back, get a view through to the belt and look ahead. When i spot my case i move through, stck my arm through the ignorant folk still waiting for the case and lift it off, ignoring those i clatter with the case. I always have a smerk on my face because of their ignorance.

If everyone took 3 paces back behind the solid line everyone would have a free view and cases would be easier to get off the belt without folk being hit.

I suppose you get those in life who are patient and think things through and you get those that have no thought for others. What comes around goes around.

 

[215m3]

Well, I would say that somebody who ignores the guidance of the Highways Agency, ignores the advice of the Highway Code and ignores the conclusions of a scientific study of a subject upon which he is highly opinionated simply because the results do not sit comfortably with his view on the matter could easily be described as "narrow visioned in their actions".

You misread my post. The highway code is a guide and it is all about improving on it's guideance. If you stick fast to the highway code then you are the one with narrow vision and will not improve your driving awareness.

There is some much out there that folk do on a daily basis they have no vision what so ever as their lost in their own little world Can do that as the 'Highway Code' doesn't mention it so better not do it!

As an example the highway code does not mention the vanashing point on twisty roads, It does not mention about wheelie bins, it does not mention looking at telegraph poles, about hedge rows, how best to position your car on a twisting road to make the best of vision with high hedges..........

I could go on, but probably lost you and others.

 

[prprandall51]

You misread my post. The highway code is a guide and it is all about improving on it's guideance. If you stick fast to the highway code then you are the one with narrow vision and will not improve your driving awareness.

There is some much out there that folk do on a daily basis they have no vision what so ever as their lost in their own little world Can do that as the 'Highway Code' doesn't mention it so better not do it!

As an example the highway code does not mention the vanashing point on twisty roads, It does not mention about wheelie bins, it does not mention looking at telegraph poles, about hedge rows, how best to position your car on a twisting road to make the best of vision with high hedges..........

I could go on, but probably lost you and others.

You haven't lost me, thanks for your concern. I have RoSPA Gold driving (including renewals) and have notched up weeks - not days - of advanced driver training in nearly thirty years of driving and riding. So, on the one hand I would say I am well qualified to comment on this subject; but, unlike you, it appears that I treat guidance from the various authorities (including scientists) as something to consider and heed and use, if necessary, to modify my driving behaviour, rather than blindly ignore.

 

[neilrr]

Some folk are just so narrow visioned on their actions.

LOL!

Pot, kettle.....

 

[215m3]

You haven't lost me, thanks for your concern. I have RoSPA Gold driving (including renewals) and have notched up weeks - not days - of advanced driver training in nearly thirty years of driving and riding. So, on the one hand I would say I am well qualified to comment on this subject; but, unlike you, it appears that I treat guidance from the various authorities (including scientists) as something to consider and heed and use, if necessary, to modify my driving behaviour, rather than blindly ignore.

I never actually said i treat guidence with closed eyes. You seem to have mis read too. I understand what it is implying, but improving on it. How that is blindly ignoring please tell me? If you understood what i have written them i question again how you did not understand? I said the highway code is a guide, not a rule. You therefore imply that i think it should be ignored, no, where have i ever said this?

Wow Gold RoSPA, must have had many hours of driving for that? I take my hat off for your patience.

There is a company that took the Roadcraft manual that the police use as there guidence and improved on this book, he was an ex copper. This is where my knowledge comes from the advanced training of roadcraft. They do driver training for many large fleet companies that want help with cutting their insurance bill.

 

[prprandall51]

Wow Gold RoSPA, must have had many hours of driving for that? I take my hat off for your patience.

Before you pour on the sarcasm, you should try getting the qualification yourself.

However, with your willingness to listen to other people's viewpoints and your deeply rooted belief that the Highway Code is no more than a mere guide from which to cherry pick the bits you like the look of, you should sail through.

See you in the next roadworks queue! I'll wave as I pass you.

 

[oldcro]

Oh you do make me laugh sometimes


Do not patronise me. Adding a smiley does not excuse bad manners.

 

[215m3]

Before you pour on the sarcasm, you should try getting the qualification yourself.

However, with your willingness to listen to other people's viewpoints and your deeply rooted belief that the Highway Code is no more than a mere guide from which to cherry pick the bits you like the look of, you should sail through.

See you in the next roadworks queue! I'll wave as I pass you.

I was not being sarcastic, as i know how long it would have taken to get a Gold RoSPA, but has a different angle to roadcraft. I am impressed.

But the highway code is not a rule book Full Stop. It is also narrow mindedness to take the HC as gospel, which seem to be the case here.

They don't cherry pick what they liked, what they did was improve on what was in the HC and roadcraft and took it to the next level. Simple as. Some folk can get to the next level, others can't, but that is what happens in life.

I know i could pass it, but it's just a piece of paper and doesn't mean my driving is any worse off for it. It hasn't stopped me from getting driving jobs and i couldn't be bothered either as the hours it would take.

 

[st4]

Well, I have never experieced difficulty with merging in nearer the cones, and usually by planning and oberservation I can adjust my speed to merge into a gap unobtrusively. I haven't done 105k miles of driving in a year, I haven't driven all UK wide (never driven in London, M25 etc) and only driven abroad once in my life but I find the converse to you....in the jams I have found its worked for me, and if others use more road space it shortens the length of the tail back as cars are using 2 lanes rather than 1. Given some careful planning and thought and using the 1 by 1 principle its an easy process. What makes it hard is when stubborn ***** who have a chip in their shoulder won't allow the recommended zip merge process to work. Whats even worse are the ***** that drive down the middle of the road 600 f***ing yrds away. If it were 5yrs from the closure maybe this defensive position may have an advantage, but not at the distances I mention.

I may be a W***** but it works for me, and given that its in the HC and the IAM pushed for it to be so, I am not the only one. if you can't get that blocking someone else making safe progress is bad driving (straddling the lanes 600yrds) from the lane closure, and indeed actively block someone getting infront of you, then its YOU that needs to grow up, not ME. How does someone getting infront of you impede you?

Oldcro, I do not mean to patronise you, but plenty of folk have said similar things in their posts in reference to me on this forum. It just seems the "way" about here. I tend not to post a dedicated reply.

 

[viking01]

FWIW: in both Belgium and the Netherlands, there are government sponsored TV-ads that encourage people to merge at the very last moment whenever a lane closes. They even put up signs that say 'Merge Here' about 20 meters before the lane actually closes.

-Eric-

 

[rf065]

FWIW: in both Belgium and the Netherlands, there are government sponsored TV-ads that encourage people to merge at the very last moment whenever a lane closes. They even put up signs that say 'Merge Here' about 20 meters before the lane actually closes.

-Eric-

That is what you are supposed to do here also, but as usual it would be too much work to put up a sign like that so as everyone in the UK knew how to approach lane closures.

Russ

 

[x332race]

Back to the original post.....I was following a car Christmas eve and noticed flames coming out from its underside....took me 2 miles to convince them to stop....all I could do was follow them flashing my headlights......There was a family with two babies inside. They got out very quickly once they realised what was up.....luckily the fire brigade arrived before the whole car went up in flames....looked as if something in the region of the Cat had caught fire.

 

[kwakdonut]

You misread my post. The highway code is a guide and it is all about improving on it's guideance. If you stick fast to the highway code then you are the one with narrow vision and will not improve your driving awareness.

There is some much out there that folk do on a daily basis they have no vision what so ever as their lost in their own little world Can do that as the 'Highway Code' doesn't mention it so better not do it!

As an example the highway code does not mention the vanashing point on twisty roads, It does not mention about wheelie bins, it does not mention looking at telegraph poles, about hedge rows, how best to position your car on a twisting road to make the best of vision with high hedges..........

I could go on, but probably lost you and others.

To a point you are correct but, quote from the Highway Code online....'Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements'

There are many references to the Road Traffic Act in the highway Code - which is law and must be obeyed.