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Zipper action, one by one works best.
Obviousily blues and twos take priority....
Obviousily blues and twos take priority....
Sorry to say but that's just plain old crap.
If there are two lanes merging into one & one of the lanes is empty then I'm driving down that lane & merging in turn at the end, as the road signs, common sense & the Highway Code all suggest.
If you want to wait in a queue while there's an empty lane next to you then please feel free to do so.
I'd take your plea for quid pro quo on road manners more seriously if you hadn't admitted to regularly undetaking on the motorway.
Nice to see another driver with maners and patient. Unlike some others on our roads!
Well just make sure i'm not at the front of the queue as you won't be barging in.
And as regards to the undertaking comment, if i can undertake them they are in the wrong lane, simple as. Undertaking is not bad manners, bad manners is road ignorance by holding up faster moving traffic, not allowing vehicles to filter in from side roads and slip roads or to overtake slower moving vehicles etc.
I suggest you don't question my driving when you obviously have no manners yourself. I also chauffuer part time and have to be absolutely perfect as i have drive celebrities to and from award ceremonies. They don't want to arrive stressed and all shaken up. Everything needs to be perfectly smooth and so many folk think they can drive smoothly, but it isn't that easy.
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But it is illegal, in the situation you describe and leaves you open to presecution, the offence is careless driving.
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st4
Banned
The high way code, and an IAM observed told me to merge in as close to the lane closure as possible but without cutting someone up etc. I do this regularly. It is not bad manners, but making swift safe progress.
People that prevent others doing this prevent someone else making swift safe progress, just as is somone who drives down the middle of a dual carriageway @ 30mph blocking 2 lanes when its safe do to 70mph. To me there is no difference. The lane is open upto the point where it closed, and should be used upto the point where its closed if it is safe to do so and better progress can be made in it.
The IAM and highway code would agree with me too
People that prevent others doing this prevent someone else making swift safe progress, just as is somone who drives down the middle of a dual carriageway @ 30mph blocking 2 lanes when its safe do to 70mph. To me there is no difference. The lane is open upto the point where it closed, and should be used upto the point where its closed if it is safe to do so and better progress can be made in it.
The IAM and highway code would agree with me too
But it is also illegal to site in th middle and outside lane too.
If all of those who do this moved to the correct lane there would be no need to undertake and the motorway would flow better.
I have come across situations on 2 lane motorways where the nearside lane is empty for over a mile.
Anyway i have been pulled for undertaking. Once overtaken i moved to the nearsidelane as it was empty, drove in this lane until i was behind the next car, about 1/2 a mile, overtook, then back over. I did this 5 or 6 times all at under 70 mph. I pulled in behind an unmarked police car. he pulled me and actually had simpathy with me. He asked if i knew what i had done. I said yes just used the dual carriageway as it should have been. He said drive carefully and let me on my way.
prprandall51
MB Enthusiast
The question of merging early or at the cones has been studied scientifically and it has been proven that to obtain maximum traffic flow through the roadworks merging should take place at the cones. Despite the notion of the perfect merge taking place further back, it has been shown that it is no more than a dream and people who go out of their way to merge early in fact hold traffic up.
The specific scientific studies - plus a wealth of information about the psychology of drivers involved in such manoeuvres - is covered in this book:
Traffic - Why we drive the way we do
The specific scientific studies - plus a wealth of information about the psychology of drivers involved in such manoeuvres - is covered in this book:
Traffic - Why we drive the way we do
Marque
Active Member
I am definitely in favour of the 'use all lanes, merge in turn' advice from the Highway Code and road signs. If everyone did this then it would be the fairest system. Why is it that the people who don't do this are the ones who shout 'unfair'? It's not logical, Captain.
However, out of courtesy to the fools who merged too early, I don't just 'barge in' at the end of the queue; I try to pace the other lane and merge when it is safe to do so. Someone always lets me in, and I always thank them.
However, out of courtesy to the fools who merged too early, I don't just 'barge in' at the end of the queue; I try to pace the other lane and merge when it is safe to do so. Someone always lets me in, and I always thank them.
As an example i was traveling up the M6 around Birmingham and it was at 1am. They sometimes carry out maintenance and close all but one lane.
I remember sitting there for ages, 30 minutes al least. When i got to a 1000 yards from the lane closure i could see the lane closed to one lane and 2 lorries and a car blocked the road to stop all those who were waiting patient and respectful of those who had arrived before them at the lane closure before them. Once the last few idiots had barged in, as that's what the were doing as folk were flashing lights in annoyance, the traffic started to flow so much better tha stop start. The stop start will happen at some stage and this is where folk are most likely to have accidents. Best it happen away from the entrance to the lane closure that at the mouth of it.
From my experience, which is quite a bit, the main cars doing the barging, traffic jumping were main from the marque you all like to slate on here, so to me that puts you in the same boat as them, very hypocritical from what i see.
You may call us fool's, i see it as being a courteous driver and all those who drive to the cones and merge in fall into the bracket of the discourteous driver.
I see it the same as 2 lanes at a set of traffic light. Left lane straight on and the right lane for turning right only. The left lane has a huge amount of traffic and would take 4 light changes to get through. If i drove in the right lane knowing full well it is not for going straight on and then try an merge in at the front of the queue, how would i be looked upon?
I remember sitting there for ages, 30 minutes al least. When i got to a 1000 yards from the lane closure i could see the lane closed to one lane and 2 lorries and a car blocked the road to stop all those who were waiting patient and respectful of those who had arrived before them at the lane closure before them. Once the last few idiots had barged in, as that's what the were doing as folk were flashing lights in annoyance, the traffic started to flow so much better tha stop start. The stop start will happen at some stage and this is where folk are most likely to have accidents. Best it happen away from the entrance to the lane closure that at the mouth of it.
From my experience, which is quite a bit, the main cars doing the barging, traffic jumping were main from the marque you all like to slate on here, so to me that puts you in the same boat as them, very hypocritical from what i see.
You may call us fool's, i see it as being a courteous driver and all those who drive to the cones and merge in fall into the bracket of the discourteous driver.
I see it the same as 2 lanes at a set of traffic light. Left lane straight on and the right lane for turning right only. The left lane has a huge amount of traffic and would take 4 light changes to get through. If i drove in the right lane knowing full well it is not for going straight on and then try an merge in at the front of the queue, how would i be looked upon?
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It's oh, so clearly not the same!!
Here the lanes are marked for filtering traffic at the turn. If you deliberatly use the right-hand lane to get to the front of the left-hand line of traffic you are so in the wrong..
In marked lanes like you describe is one of the places you can legitamately pass on the left.
I would not use this course of action, it was a comparisson, but highlighting it's what those who merge in are effectively doing. They have seen the sign saying lane 'x' is closed in 800 yards but still drive the 600+ yards to move over. Instead of moving over when they have become aware of the lane closure.
I'm sorry, but more fool those who don't understand the rules of the road and how they apply in this situation.
Until fairly recently I was doing 40k+ business miles a year and it would infuriate me that those who don't understand the rules of the road try to impose their incorrect view onto others - whether merging, positioning at junctions/ roundabouts, acceleration / decelleration lanes, etc.
There is no need for the traffic to stop when correct merging takes place - it slows as the lanes "zip" together. The problem isn't drivers who expect to merge at the correct place - it's the idiots (to use your quote) who either can't / don't / won't understand what they should be doing or feel that their own space on the road is so important that they mustn't let people in front.
What is there in the parts of the highway code quote above that you can't understand?
prprandall51
MB Enthusiast
But, as I mentioned, scientific studies by traffic experts have established that your approach is actually slowing traffic down. It may seem to you to be the polite thing to do but it is delaying your journey through the roadworks plus that of everyone else. All you are effectively doing is increasing the length of the single-lane restriction by an extra 800 yards.
Marque
Active Member
But why do you suppose such signs exist? They exist to warn drivers to slow down and to prepare to merge when their lane closes. The lane isn't closed yet. If the Police or Highways Agency wanted traffic to merge 800m earlier then they would have put the cones at that point instead. All it achieves is to push the congestion back down the road, potentially blocking a previous junction.
The real problem, however, is that some people think that everyone should merge as soon as possible and others think that everyone should use all the available tarmac. Both methods would work if everyone did the same thing, so the fault lies in our system of driver education. I'm sure this problem doesn't exist in Germany.
There are also a couple of practical reasons why the second method is better. I alluded to the first reason above (not blocking previous junctions). The second reason is that nobody can cheat if all drivers use all lanes, so this is the fairest method. It's pretty clear what is the most practical solution, and that's why it's in the Highway Code.
Or to put it another way, if you can't beat them, join them!
st4
Banned
But why do you suppose such signs exist? They exist to warn drivers to slow down and to prepare to merge when their lane closes. The lane isn't closed yet. If the Police or Highways Agency wanted traffic to merge 800m earlier then they would have put the cones at that point instead. All it achieves is to push the congestion back down the road, potentially blocking a previous junction.
The real problem, however, is that some people think that everyone should merge as soon as possible and others think that everyone should use all the available tarmac. Both methods would work if everyone did the same thing, so the fault lies in our system of driver education. I'm sure this problem doesn't exist in Germany.
There are also a couple of practical reasons why the second method is better. I alluded to the first reason above (not blocking previous junctions). The second reason is that nobody can cheat if all drivers use all lanes, so this is the fairest method. It's pretty clear what is the most practical solution, and that's why it's in the Highway Code.
Or to put it another way, if you can't beat them, join them!
Exactly, the lane isn't closed until the traffic cones block it off, until then it is there to be used as normal, as an overtaking lane to overtake slower moving traffic. In this scenario it is to be used to overtake those unable to comprehend the zip merging principle to be applied @ the lane closure.
If I overtake a slower moving car in lane 1 and lane 2 closes in 400yrs and I can merge in safely 300yrs distance why shouldn't I use lane 2 and make progress. Its just overtaking as per normal
Given that the loudest speaker against this drives an AMG I find it incredibly hard to believe they have never overtaken a car and got to their journeys end quicker as a result. I take it they are against overtaking too as its unfair they get somewhere sooner than someone else
Are they saying its unfair to overtake (and therefore drive @ the speedlimit) because they might get somewhere sooner
Heaven forbid, or is this a case of "holier than thou"Merging as per the IAMs advice and per described in the highway code is exactly the blooming same as overtaking a slower moving car, just that you tend to get past many more cars and annoy someone who clearly has driving skills that are deficient to that of your own.
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The car one drives is irrellevant. Plus it's impossible to overtake these days too!
I'm not talking about the signs being there, what i'm saying is that folk merge at this point and NOT AT THE CONES, which is what the whole discussion has been about!
We are not talking about slower moving vehicles either, we are talking about cars that are queuing to travel through the roadworks where one lane has been blocked off. The reason they are slow or stationary is the traffic volume of 2 lanes won't fit into one lane covering the same distance, plus more often than not the a speed limit has been enforced.
Another exmplae.
If you go into the post office and see a queue of slowly moving folk waiting to be served, would you walk to the front of the queue because you are walking faster than they are? No, they were there before you so you wait behind them.
I attended the IAM, but decided it was not advanced enough so moved on to the next level. I also found the IAM was folk of the older generation who's driving ability was average and concentrated on awareness and anticpation and must do the MSM every time they changed lane or direction and push pull crash! There were good points, but needed taking to another level.
I found it quite limited and boring.
Plus I'm not going to join 'them' and be like all the other sheep i see before me.
I'm not talking about the signs being there, what i'm saying is that folk merge at this point and NOT AT THE CONES, which is what the whole discussion has been about!
We are not talking about slower moving vehicles either, we are talking about cars that are queuing to travel through the roadworks where one lane has been blocked off. The reason they are slow or stationary is the traffic volume of 2 lanes won't fit into one lane covering the same distance, plus more often than not the a speed limit has been enforced.
Another exmplae.
If you go into the post office and see a queue of slowly moving folk waiting to be served, would you walk to the front of the queue because you are walking faster than they are? No, they were there before you so you wait behind them.
I attended the IAM, but decided it was not advanced enough so moved on to the next level. I also found the IAM was folk of the older generation who's driving ability was average and concentrated on awareness and anticpation and must do the MSM every time they changed lane or direction and push pull crash! There were good points, but needed taking to another level.
I found it quite limited and boring.
Plus I'm not going to join 'them' and be like all the other sheep i see before me.
st4
Banned
Ideally you'd have had to have been with me to see what I was getting @ but you should merge as near to the end of lane closure as possible and when its safe to do so.
This doesn't mean drive upto the the cones, and push in, but it needs awareness and planning, and the MSM which you slate. A gap usually presents itself.
What I really object to is someone blocking someone else progressing in lane 2 just because they have a hang up about being overtaken/passed because they are in a queue. Some c*** decided to straddle both lanes on Friday PM about 600yrds from the lane closure so no-one could progress and merge in @ a later point. The road is still a dual carriageway upto the point it closes, and he was travelling slower in lane 1 (in a slow moving queue) whilst lane 2 was open for people to porgress, (say 5-10mph faster) and merge in later.
Merging should be done 1 by 1 and the closer to the lane closure its done, the more traffic can be fitted onto the road space, making for more efficient traffic management.
You're based in Scotland so I assume you've driven in either Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen or 2 or all of them. You'll find there are bus lanes and car drivers aren't allowed to use them, so they lie mostly empty apart from the odd bus. What do you think would happen if there were no buses and these lanes could be used for cars, the answer is there would be less congestion as more traffic could be carried per unit of road space.
Now apply the same thinking to my gripe in the post.
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