How much would you pay for one of these?

[wemorgan]

I agree to some extent, although 65 mpg doesn't sound that impressive (bearing in mind the size, weight, and tiny engine). And a £12k pricetag seems excessive, IMHO.

My view exactly. I've owned a Smart ForTwo and now an Audi A2, which also averages 65mpg, but has 4 doors, 4 seats and good sized boot. I just don't see how that other car has raised the bar compared to those cars I've owned.

 

[jepho]

I don't understand all of the abuse and scorn.

Why not? It is entirely wrong, in my view, to produce cardboard boxes that pretend to be fully developed cars. As an ex-biker, I can tell you that the loss of the British motorcycle industry presaged many dumb decisions. Limiting learners to 50cc mopeds (none of which emulated the NSU Quickly) produced a crop of very fast 'mopeds' that were, without exception, dangerous because they only had the running gear of a 50cc machine. Braking from 50mph in the wet was an appalling experience and I saw many an injured learner rider because these look-alike motorcycles were inadequate in most respects.

The above preamble was apropos the notion that an egg box on wheels is not a car, it is still an egg box on wheels. It will not be as structurally sound as a car which is designed to do a bit more than tool around the city at 10mph (current average London traffic speeds are even lower) and the protection afforded by one of these vehicles is somewhat less than we would all desire for our loved ones. My scornful attitude is because those people who wanted airbags for and leg-shields for all bikers (complete with an orange flashing light on their helmets) are the clueless bureaucrats who willing inflict this sort of nonsense on us all.

Were public transport, clean, efficient, reliable and cheap, no driver in their right mind would want to be sat in traffic jams for hours on end. I was able to travel from one end of the cable car line to the other end (in San Francisco) for 50 cents. Yesterday, I was able to park my car (free) and I paid £1.50 return journey into and out of Bedford Town using their park and ride scheme. Innovative approaches to our traffic problem are needed, not smaller and smaller cars. How about we address the madness that sees most of the population trying to get to work at the same time as each other, every day.

Will these 'eco-friendly' death traps free up our roads, or use less carbon-based products? (rhetorical) I didn't think so. If you think that is the case, I cannot argue with you but I am sure that anyone with an iota of common sense will look at our petroleum-product based economies (plastics anyone?) and see that the carbon footprint of humanity is not solely due to cars. This type of vehicle promotes a failure to think and it woulds seem that the owners of these ridiculous vehicles think that because they are driving this one or its variants, that they are saving the planet. It is arrant nonsense and I would hope that the people who can think for themselves, will see this as yet another very cynical marketing ploy (designed to make us all feel bad about ruining planet Earth) rather than the beginnings of the formulation of a sustainable transport policy for our future personal transportation needs.

These cars may be of little interest to posters on this thread but people will buy them, just as they buy Smart cars, just as they will buy the new Renault quadricycle, and (eventually) they will buy this:

Citing the mythical number of people, who will choose to buy these poorly conceived vehicles, as an argument to bolster the wholesome goodness of microcars and propose it as a rationale for not dismissing their curious engineering departure, is an attempt to appeal to an authority which you do not possess.

So, it may not be very pretty but smaller cars are the future of motoring.

Is this a fact or an opinion? If it is a fact, please be kind enough to produce some tangible evidence. If it is your opinion, then I cannot argue with it for our opinions are not capable of being 'right' or 'wrong'.

Apart from nicking Jaguar's tag line, it seems a reasonable enough small car offering. As to the blurb on the website, it seems no worse than the rubbish on the MB site, or any other car site, fo that matter.

One person's reasonable is another person's unreasonable. Your argument should stand on its own feet and not keep referring to irrelevant material.

 

[tpwuk]

^Well said Jepho. So, when are you getting one?

 

[jepho]

No. I wouldn't buy an M.GO because it doesn't move the goalposts forward (and is absurdly expensive).

But we had a Fiat 500 diesel until recently for local running around and I would buy a T27 (as in my pic above) in a heartbeat (as and when it becomes available). I can't imagine anything better for most of my motoring needs.

Quite. However you do list your MB as a 211 estate. Help me out here... if the T27 is (your own words) best for most of your motoring needs, why drive an estate MB? You could easily hire the estate on the few occasions that it may be necessary, n'est-ce pas?

 

[prprandall51]

Too big to bother clicking the quote button, but it seems to me that it is your post that is full of irrelevant rambilings and anecdotes, and opinions expressed as facts.

I agree there is no evidence that small cars are definitively the future, and therefore I agree that is my opinion, but it also seems to be the opinion of most of the major manufacturers and car designers. Simply look at the number of small cars appearing on the stands at motorshows.

And there is a world of difference between constructive critisism (to which the G.Mo is widely open) and abuse and scorn based on nothing more than a photo.

 

[Sp!ke]

I don't understand all of the abuse and scorn.

These cars may be of little interest to posters on this thread but people will buy them, just as they buy Smart cars, just as they will buy the new Renault quadricycle, and (eventually) they will buy this:

So, it may not be very pretty but smaller cars are the future of motoring.

Apart from nicking Jaguar's tag line, it seems a reasonable enough small car offering. As to the blurb on the website, it seems no worse than the rubbish on the MB site, or any other car site, fo that matter.

So what does this particular microcar offer that makes it so praiseworthy?

 

[c2raig]

The biggest beef I have with the fartbox posted earlier, is that they're not cars, they make the operator (not driver, you'll note) very vulnerable and the vehicles are very unstable. In France, you don't need a licence to operate one.

Now, I'm all for small cars. I have two. These things are just dangerous, however.

 

[jepho]

^Well said Jepho. So, when are you getting one?

Well, my personal mode of transport is important to me and I don't think I would feel very good about buying an M Go unless I could have a different one of their microcars for every day of the week. I would paint the days of the week on them so I could tell if the rather small petrol tank needed filling up. (I have had motorcycles with larger petrol tanks... my Guzzi T3 had a 5 gallon tank.) I would also want the top spec sporty models because driving an M.Go would depress me unspeakably and I would want to be distracted from my misguided decision to join the eco-warriors.

Now lessee... 7 x £12,199 is £85,393 but you would have then got 7 cars polluting the atmosphere.

I would rather have one of these cars and only have one car polluting our planet. In answer to your question, I must confess that I wont be getting a microcar of any type. I am going to continue ruining our planet. :bannana::bannana::bannana::bannana:

 

[wemorgan]

So what does this particular microcar offer that makes it so praiseworthy?

I'm not 100% sure but I believe what makes the T25 different to other small cars are the materials and manufacturing processes used.

Many small cars are still costing £12k and some £16k. Partly due to marketing, but also due to the manufacturing costs.

The T25 looks to approach vehicle manufacturing with a fresh pair of eyes.

T.25 - Life Cycle Impacts - Gordon Murray Design

 

[prprandall51]

So what does this particular microcar offer that makes it so praiseworthy?

Phenomenal crash protection for size, revolutionary eco-construction, brilliant occupant packaging, minimal CO2 output, and - if anyone has a pop at it down the pub (or on a web forum) - you can quietly mention the the designer's previous effort was the Mclaren F1

Press - Gordon Murray Design & Zytek Automotive Announce Electric City Car Programme - Gordon Murray Design

 

[tpwuk]

Maclaren F1? Are you sure you don't mean the Maclaren Quest Sport?

 

[prprandall51]

Quite. However you do list your MB as a 211 estate. Help me out here... if the T27 is (your own words) best for most of your motoring needs, why drive an estate MB? You could easily hire the estate on the few occasions that it may be necessary, n'est-ce pas?

I don't see the act of owning a car as being the same as driving it (though I do acknowledge the energy used in its construction) and as a family, we need two cars as a matter of logistics when my wife and I need to be in different places simultaneously.

We use the 211 for long journeys and whenever there is stuff to be moved around. We use a small car for almost all of our daily activities, however: driving to and from work, shopping, etc.

So, a small car with low emissions and good economy is the perfect car for us - especially as our daily commute is only two miles - that killed the Fiat 500's engine (literally!) and would be detrimental to most cars except an electric car.

 

[tpwuk]

deleted

 

[tpwuk]

Deleted

 

[prprandall51]

Maclaren F1? Are you sure you don't mean the Maclaren Quest Sport?

Yes, I am sure.

 

[tpwuk]

^hehe

 

[jepho]

I don't see the act of owning a car as being the same as driving it (though I do acknowledge the energy used in its construction) and as a family, we need two cars as a matter of logistics when my wife and I need to be in different places simultaneously.

We use the 211 for long journeys and whenever there is stuff to be moved around. We use a small car for almost all of our daily activities, however: driving to and from work, shopping, etc.

So, a small car with low emissions and good economy is the perfect car for us - especially as our daily commute is only two miles - that killed the Fiat 500's engine (literally!) and would be detrimental to most cars except an electric car.

DVLA have a different point of view concerning ownership unless a vehicle is declared SORN.

I guess one would have to know the relationship between the miles driven in each car type. A commute of 2 miles would suggest that the miles driven in the smaller car would only be 20 miles per week (assuming 5 days of work) plus say... the same for shopping so lets assume 50miles per week in the smaller car. So an annual mileage of say... 2600 miles which is not very onerous and would possibly mandate public transport (especially as you made the point about engine longevity) if one were really trying to live up to an idealised set of green credentials.

I would not want to legislate for anyone else what type of car use they must abide by but I think we are fooling ourselves if we believe that smaller is the way to go. I would like to see some government assistance with getting hydrogen-fuelled vehicles onto our streets. I would also like to see a very different public transport policy.

Why do our politicians insist on viewing public transport as basic cattle class travel and encourage everyone to travel via their personal vehicle? I was struck by some differences when in Köln and Geneva recently. In Germany I was able to buy a train ticket for €2 and that permitted me to make a return journey of around 25 miles... it puts our own rail network and its grasping owners to shame. Buses in Geneva were clean, cheap and on time... once again this is very different to our own transport network.

It is criminally expensive to take a train anywhere in the UK and the perfidious charges do not even guarantee the hapless ticket-holder a seat. Contrast and compare that with the fantastic TGV in France. It is quite expensive but the service is second to none and something akin to low flying.

Ultimately, I am not persuaded that small cars of the ilk known as microcars are any better than larger cars. It remains to be seen whether public transportation in the UK, ever gets dragged out of the Stevenson's Rocket era.