How to change SBC brake pads

[television]

Though MB state the you cannot work on the SBC brake sytem without STAR diagnosis, there are two ways that this can be done.
The SBC pump has a large multi plug that can be withdrawn, then pumping the brake pedal till it sinks to the floor (10 pumps) it has been done this way with no problems encountered.

My chosen way was park the car with the wheels straight ahead, and then disconnect both batteries (if two) pump the pedal 10 times or until no presure felt. Do check the level of the top up tank, if very high remove some fluid.

The fronts on all SBC fitted cars are standad callipers with the 2 pins to knock out, the pistons can be withdrawn as standard practice on normal brakes. I could do mine without the need to turn the wheels away from the straight ahead possition with ease.

The rear are the standard 7 mm screws where the calliper lifts off.

Cars fitted with SBC have no known battery connection problems, the car where the owner unplugged the pump was a E class and he even started the car to change the lock, though he had no problems, I would not choose to do that.

On my 230 , it was only necessary to sinc the two windows and the ESP.
I used EBC green pads as i hate dirty wheels.

Malcolm

 

[compress ignite]

"Green Pads"

'Nice pictorial!

what are Green Pads?

("Ceramic"?)

 

[television]

'Nice pictorial!

what are Green Pads?

("Ceramic"?)

EBC is a company that makes high quality after market Pads and disc.

there are 3 groups of pads, see the link. the ceramic are EBC red.

http://www.brakes4u.co.uk/default.asp?PARTNER=google

http://www.ebcbrakesdirect.com/?source=googleebc&gclid=CPyKv9iksokCFRizEAodFRIIOA

More MB's are listed under brakes 4 u site than the EBC site.

Malcolm

 

[Dieselman]

television thanks for clarifying the situation regarding SBC pad changes.

As long as you keep the key out of the ignition and don't open the drivers door the SBC system will stay dormant anyway as it will have no power.
Even if it operates it isn't going to take your fingers off as it is so slow to pump the pads in.

EBC greenstuff pads are made using Kevlar instead of metal fibres. This means that there are no red hot bits of metal to melt into your wheel laquer.

For best results fit them all round otherwise the additional friction of the green stuff pads will cause them to wear quicker because they will be doing more of the braking.

I have them all round and am very pleased with the performance and wear, and especially the condition of the wheels.

 

[glojo]

Apart from the DIY side of this informative thread I wonder what the dealership would say if we were to supply these green pads and ask that they be fitted when our vehicles go in for service?

Regarding the SBC issue I am not technically qualified to answer this point but I have heard some horrific stories about what can happen when this system is tampered with by unqualified DIY mechanics. Don't forget when the car is unlocked the SBC activates itself, either that or our car has a chronic case of indigestion

Thanks again for the excellent thread and are these green pads the best type for cutting down on that awful brake dust?

Regards,
John the inquisitive

 

[Dieselman]

Apart from the DIY side of this informative thread I wonder what the dealership would say if we were to supply these green pads and ask that they be fitted when our vehicles go in for service?

Regarding the SBC issue I am not technically qualified to answer this point but I have heard some horrific stories about what can happen when this system is tampered with by unqualified DIY mechanics. Don't forget when the car is unlocked the SBC activates itself, either that or our car has a chronic case of indigestion

Thanks again for the excellent thread and are these green pads the best type for cutting down on that awful brake dust?

Regards,
John the inquisitive

John
Is your SBC activating on unlocking or door opening. AFAIK it should be door opening.
Still not a problem for the DIYer as the car will already be unlocked. Just have the windows down to give access to the cabin if required.

I wouldn't have thought a dealer would object to fitting the pads, if they do use an inde.

These pads really are the best at reducing the brake dust but still leave some due to the nature of how brakes work.
The good news is that they offer better stopping power and the brake dust doesn't burn onto the wheels so can be washed off easily.

Have you Supagarded your new wheels yet?
If not do it but still coat them with wax afterwards otherwise they will attract more brake dust, but it'll still wash off ok though.

 

[television]

With the batteries disconnected or the pump unpluged (just behind offside head lamp) nothin can happen, The callipers are standard both back and front,as on a normal car.

The latest from SBC is the super green pad offering a 80% reduction in dust but at the moment is only for SUV's.

I used the Red ceramic in my 129, they were good, but were not available for the rear.

Dieselman has said better to change all 4 sets, this is a very good point.
I fitted the racing pads to my V70R (295bhp) along with new disc, the pedal preasure was higher with these pads, looking at them now 7k down the line, I see that the front disc are not wearing at all,but the rear are.
this is backwards to what should be happening. It has always been the case that softer pads wear the disc more, (a steel pin or shaft will always wear more than the bronze bush that it sits in)

While on this subject, TMD the OE supplier of brakes to MB has brought out a new grease, the reason being that copper based grease has been upsetting the ABS and ESP due to leakage, copper of co**** being conductive.

Malcolm

 

[Dieselman]

The latest from SBC is the super green pad offering a 80% reduction in dust but at the moment is only for SUV's.

These are not an alternative for the greenstuff pads, they are the heavy duty version for goods vehicles. Effectively the same as car greenstuff.

I used the Red ceramic in my 129, they were good, but were not available for the rear.

I fitted the racing pads to my V70R (295bhp) along with new disc, the pedal preasure was higher with these pads, looking at them now 7k down the line, I see that the front disc are not wearing at all,but the rear are.

That's because the racing pads aren't getting hot enough to operate properly so have a low coefficient of friction as opposed to the standard rear pads, unless you changed the lot in which case check your front brakes or brake proportioning valve.

You should only use the greenstuff pads for road use, the red ones won't get hot enough unless doing a track day.

 

[Dieselman]

This might be useful.

Anyone thinking of upgrading their pads should take a look at this pad operating temperature chart.
Race pads are no good for street use unless you regularly do bank jobs.

 

[television]

Race pads are no good for street use unless you regularly do bank jobs.

Any good tips in case times get hard


malcolm

 

[Dieselman]

Yep.
Warm the brakes up first.

 

[Fady]

I got an independant to change my brake fluid as I decided that the quoted dealer price was not in line with the amount of work that needs doing - it's a peasy job. But I did some research up front to ensure that there was nothing out of the ordinary that needed doing and came up with this thread from the US forum.

As I'll probably go the same way with brake pads when they are due, I also looked that up. There are several useful documents on changing pads without Star diagnosis within this thread from the same forum.

 

[television]

I got an independant to change my brake fluid as I decided that the quoted dealer price was not in line with the amount of work that needs doing - it's a peasy job. But I did some research up front to ensure that there was nothing out of the ordinary that needed doing and came up with this thread from the US forum.

As I'll probably go the same way with brake pads when they are due, I also looked that up. There are several useful documents on changing pads without Star diagnosis within this thread from the same forum.

Yes I did know of the lifting all 4 wheels off the ground, is it worth the risk, its not funny if you got it wrong.

Malcolm

 

[blackscooby]

Interesting you rate the EBC Greens. I've used all sorts of pads in the Peugeot. Hillcimbing and sprinting where the pad's don't really get that hot we use a "soft" Mintex 1144 which works well from low temps. We used to use EBC's but had issues with them being somewhat inconsistant between sets of pads.

Now on track days we did 2 laps of Oulton Park and the Mintex's faded, replaced them with a set of Pagid race, and hells bells. NO stopping power at all when cold, but once the tyres warmed up and we could use the brakes; the more they were used the better they got ! Via a serious amount of left foot braking to get some temp into them. There's a photo somewhere of the Pug braking into the Shell Oils hairpin with the disks glowing red !!!! Now these are standard disks, and the brakes were perfectly fine. Just let them cool down before coming back into the pits ! and don't use the sodding handbrake (aimed at brother)

Shame it ruined the paint on the alloys. Instead of being silver they are now a faded pale brown colour, and the disks are seriously blued !

One thing we learnt is that pads are VERY condition specific. What we use in hillclimbing / sprinting isn't at all suitable for track work. We've now got about 4 or 5 sets of pads, even certain tracks cause us different issues. The tight twisty circuit on Anglesey caused us issues with the Mintex 1155's and they needed "sanding" to keep the shine off the pads or they'd fail but not through heat, just pad glaze.

 

[glojo]

As I'll probably go the same way with brake pads when they are due, I also looked that up. There are several useful documents on changing pads without Star diagnosis within this thread from the same forum.

Hi Fady,
I have absolutely no idea about dabbling with the SBC system, but no doubt you are aware that the US SBC is a very basic offering. The European SBC has more bells and whistles, although in recent times SBC Stop has been taken off the specifications.

I am NOT suggesting do not replace the pads, I am simply saying have your eyes wide open.

I am following these pad recommendations with great interest and hopefully when the time comes I will use the pads of choice.

John

 

[Dieselman]

This made me think about the SBC system. The system is basically the same as a standard system but instead of using a servo to create additional pressure in the system it uses the ABS pump and has a proportioning valve to vary the pressure.

Given this then I can't see any reason why the system needs special treatment as opposed to any other system other than to ensure that it isn't activated whilst there is no pad or caliper fitted.

I suspect the Dealer method of bleeding the brakes is to get the internal pump to do the pumping of the fluid but I can't see why this couldn't be done by an external method, possibly even the brake master cyinder as long as the system is dormant.
At the end of the day it's just simple hydraulics with an electrical pump. That's the beauty of hydraulics, they're always simple.

 

[glojo]

At the end of the day it's just simple hydraulics with an electrical pump. That's the beauty of hydraulics, they're always simple.

I have read that it is indeed the disarming of the system that can cause serious problems to the health of the mechanic.

As you have read in countless posts, the funny noises being heard when the car is unlocked is this system doing its thing. Any job, like any question, is easy when you know the answer.

As I keep saying, I'm not saying don't, I am simply saying, be warned.

John