I did a stupid thing today.

[meeeb]

Indeed, a driver travelling at 50 mph in the outside lane is perfectly justified to be there if overtaking traffic moving more slowly in the other lane(s). If someone behind wishes to go faster, he (because it invariably is a "he") should pull back to a safe distance and wait until the lane is clear again.

It depends why he or she is travelling at 50 MPH. If it's because he or she is being held back by a slower moving vehicle then ok. If it's because he or she is too timid to travel at a higher speed, or is just being provocative, then the circumstances may support the argument that he or she is causing an unnecessary obstruction, and may be it's him or her who should "pull back and wait until the lane (behind) is clear".

"Invariably"? I don't think so.

 

[jdrrco]

It depends why he or she is travelling at 50 MPH. If it's because he or she is being held back by a slower moving vehicle then ok. If it's because he or she is too timid to travel at a higher speed, or is just being provocative, then the circumstances may support the argument that he or she is causing an unnecessary obstruction, and may be it's him or her who should "pull back and wait until the lane (behind) is clear".

You say "being held back by a slower moving vehicle". I clearly stated: "if overtaking traffic moving more slowly in the other lane(s)".

Thank you for agreeing with me.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

It depends why he or she is travelling at 50 MPH. If it's because he or she is being held back by a slower moving vehicle then ok. If it's because he or she is too timid to travel at a higher speed, or is just being provocative, then the circumstances may support the argument that he or she is causing an unnecessary obstruction, and may be it's him or her who should "pull back and wait until the lane (behind) is clear".

"Invariably"? I don't think so.

I agree. If say the NSL of 70mph is in force at the time, the driver only wanting to travel at 50 should wait to overtake until he/she can do so without impeding the progress of those drivers who want to go faster whilst within the limit. Just because they don't want to go faster doesn't mean nobody else wants to. And if they're happy to be travelling along a motorway at 50mph then they're likely to not be bothered by a short delay behind an even slower vehicle.

 

[meeeb]

You say "being held back by a slower moving vehicle". I clearly stated: "if overtaking traffic moving more slowly in the other lane(s)".

Thank you for agreeing with me.

You've missed the point.

Knighterrant understands it.

 

[RWDpetrol]

You've missed the point.

Knighterrant understands it.

Yeah, doh!

 

[BandyAndy]

if you ever drive along the M4 west of Cardiff, watch out for white vans on the bridges. In fact watch out for tripods. Last week, just after J35 there was a traffic police bike on one bridge just after J35 with a camera on tripod and the camera van was on another bridge just after J34. They are regularly there. So regular, traffic flow reduces to around 75mph and then speeds up after 33 Eastbound and after 36 Westbound. People still get caught in spite of car drivers flashing their lights in warning on the other side.

I can vouch for this from my regular trips to Pembroke.
They are a money making machine on that stretch of the M4.

 

[meeeb]

I can vouch for this from my regular trips to Pembroke.
They are a money making machine on that stretch of the M4.

Almost makes you want to abide by the speed limits, doesn't it?

Having regard to the following ACPO guidelines, which tend to indicate a reasonable tolerance to offending, some people may think that voluntary contributions to the 'money making machine' are thoroughly deserved.

9.3 Where police officers consider that an offence has been committed i.e. that a motorist has driven at any speed over the relevant speed limit, there will be no restriction on proceedings, however, they should consider whether it is appropriate to take enforcement action in that case taking into account such facts as the level of signing and engineering to support the limit and whether it was clear to the motorist that there was a limit and what that speed limit was. Police discretion to ensure prosecution is necessary and proportionate to the offending.

9.4 The Police Service now uses technology that enables it to prove that an offence has been committed as soon as a driver exceeds the relevant speed limit by a very small margin. Motorists will therefore be at risk of prosecution immediately they exceed any legal speed limit.

9.5 The guidance to police officers is that, when they feel enforcement is necessary, it is anticipated that, other than in the most exceptional circumstances (arrest), the issue of fixed penalty notices or summonses are likely to be the minimum appropriate
enforcement action (with certain offenders offered a course of education at the lower and less harmful speeds).

9.6 The guidance is that enforcement by prosecution should not be considered when it is lower than the speeds reached in the following table:

9.7 These guidelines do not and cannot replace police officer's discretion. Where an officer decides to issue a summons or a fixed penalty notice in respect of offences committed at speeds lower than those set out in the table, he or she must consider the tolerances of the equipment used to corroborate their opinion. Police speed equipment are tested and approved to work with a maximum tolerance of +/-2mph up to 66mph and 3% for all speeds higher than 66mph, so it is possible to use these tolerances as a prosecution threshold. Moreover, in particular circumstances, driving at speeds lower than the legal limit may result in prosecution for other offences, for example dangerous driving or driving without due care and attention when the speed is inappropriate and inherently unsafe.

I couldn't copy and paste the table, but so far as motorways are concerned the speeds are:-

70 mph = speed limit

73 mph = device tolerance

79 mph = fixed penalty
79 mph - 86 mph = Speed Awareness


96 mph= summons

My interpretation of the speed awareness recommendation is that it is used in conjunction with a fixed penalty notice.

The blue bits are my highlights which some may find particularly illuminating, the latter of which supports my previous argument re overtaking at 50 mph.

 

[219]

It depends why he or she is travelling at 50 MPH. If it's because he or she is being held back by a slower moving vehicle then ok. If it's because he or she is too timid to travel at a higher speed, or is just being provocative, then the circumstances may support the argument that he or she is causing an unnecessary obstruction, and may be it's him or her who should "pull back and wait until the lane (behind) is clear".

"Invariably"? I don't think so.

I think , for clarification , it would be wrong to commence an overtake at 50 mph if it was clear that faster traffic was approaching from behind .

However , if I was in something like a 1950's VW Beetle with a whole 35 bhp at my disposal ( or a Ponton 190D ) and had started my overtake of a caravan of lorries trundling up a long incline even slower than I was going , with nothing in sight to the rear before I pulled out , then I would feel entitled to complete my overtake even if some faster vehicles did catch up during the overtake .

I was trying hard there to think of suitably pedestrian vehicles which might struggle to maintain 50 mph going up a hill

 

[RWDpetrol]

I think , for clarification , it would be wrong to commence an overtake at 50 mph if it was clear that faster traffic was approaching from behind .

Agree and this is why driving in most other European countries (where they help those behind them make progress) is so much better than the UK.

 

[BandyAndy]

9.3 Where police officers consider that an offence has been committed i.e. that a motorist has driven at any speed over the relevant speed limit, there will be no restriction on proceedings, however, they should consider whether it is appropriate to take enforcement action in that case taking into account such facts as the level of signing and engineering to support the limit and whether it was clear to the motorist that there was a limit and what that speed limit was. Police discretion to ensure prosecution is necessary and proportionate to the offending.

That's all well and good, but these are static cameras in vans on the M4. If you break the speed limit you're done for it, no if's or but's. No policeman's consideration.
My opinion stems from a work colleague's experience. He was fined £60 and 3 points for driving at 77 mph on that stretch of motorway. This was on an early Sunday morning, with clear weather and an empty road. He was in the inside lane, and reckon's he only saw four other vehicles before he got to Bridgend.
Now if he had been stopped by a patrol, do you think the outcome would have been the same ? The policeman would have given his Merc the once-over and given him a lecture, but then would have probably sent him on his way.
As it was, he paid £80 and took a day off work to go on the driver's awareness course. It was a first offence, and he didn't get the points.

 

[vbachetta]

i know exactly the road you was travelling on, i use the same route every weekend when going home or coming back to London. Personally i would have done the same, infact i have never flashed anyone until i started using this route.

 

[itaintemeyouno]

That's all well and good, but these are static cameras in vans on the M4. If you break the speed limit you're done for it, no if's or but's. No policeman's consideration.
My opinion stems from a work colleague's experience. He was fined £60 and 3 points for driving at 77 mph on that stretch of motorway. This was on an early Sunday morning, with clear weather and an empty road. He was in the inside lane, and reckon's he only saw four other vehicles before he got to Bridgend.
Now if he had been stopped by a patrol, do you think the outcome would have been the same ? The policeman would have given his Merc the once-over and given him a lecture, but then would have probably sent him on his way.
As it was, he paid £80 and took a day off work to go on the driver's awareness course. It was a first offence, and he didn't get the points.

That surprises me as South Wales Police do follow the standard ACPO guidelines of 10% +2 for the start of enforcement - so up to 78mph should have been ok.

I've seen advice given on these boards that the motorway boards within managed areas only enforce when there is a speed limit shown on them. this is untrue. I know someone that got done at 81mph on the stretch between Bristol M32 and the Almondsbury Interchange (J19/18 M4).