If I Never Deal With A Main Dealer Again, It'll Be Too Soon, The Shysters!

[camerafodder]

Did they tell you that they'd fix the car for £96 if the work wasn't covered by a goodwill payment? The impression I gained from your OP was that they meant that the goodwill offer may not include a software upgrade required as part of the fix. I think you read into this that if MB wouldn't pay for the work itself, then the dealership would, but that's just wishful thinking.

So your tailoring comparison is a little skewed. However, if I was told that I would be charged for half and hour's labour even if they spent that time looking to repair them but were not able to do so, they I would say fair's fair - I wouldn't expect them to work for nothing. Having said that, I've been blessed with a tailor that seems to love doing small jobs for nothing, even when I'm fully expecting to pay.

In fairness MOCAS the OP suggests that Sweetpea would be charged the £96 for a software upgrade not diagnosis.

 

[MOCAŠ]

Even when you've made an appointment and they know how much you're potentially going to spend?

Would you class that as good customer service?

Bad timekeeping is probably my biggest pet hate and I know it certainly is for my cousin too.

Hmm, there's something terribly un-British about this.

Punctuality is important, but it's not the be all and end all of everything. Do we know what caused the 5-minute delay? Was the salesman out the back of the showroom, throwing snowballs at his colleagues (a la Armstrong and Miller)? Or was he perhaps held up of a phone call from another customer that lasted a little longer than expected. What if you had been that other customer, and he'd drawn your call to an abrupt close because of his other appointment? There'd no doubt be another thread in the offing about how the salesman thought some other customer was more important than you.

When visiting my dealership, my experience is that there is a comfortable waiting area with free hot and cold drinks, biscuits, a selection of newspapers and TV. A five-minute wait in such circumstances is hardly an ordeal, and I'm sure the first thing the salesman did was to apologise for keeping your cousin waiting. Still not good enough?

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Did they tell you that they'd fix the car for £96 if the work wasn't covered by a goodwill payment? The impression I gained from your OP was that they meant that the goodwill offer may not include a software upgrade required as part of the fix. I think you read into this that if MB wouldn't pay for the work itself, then the dealership would

Not at all, I didn't for one minute presume that the dealership would pay in the event that Mercedes wouldn't.

Re-read some of my posts on this thread;

When I spoke to the dealer and told them the problem and are Mercedes still replacing the SBC FOC, they said that they've never had a claim knocked back.

Worse case scenario from my financial point of view, they said, would be a software update that will cost me £96.

End result, it wasn't the software that was the problem and I became their first ever customer to be rejected for an SBC unit FOC, leading to me walking out with a very very sour taste in my mouth.

 

[nick mercedes]

So your tailoring comparison is a little skewed. However, if I was told that I would be charged for half and hour's labour even if they spent that time looking to repair them but were not able to do so, they I would say fair's fair - I wouldn't expect them to work for nothing. Having said that, I've been blessed with a tailor that seems to love doing small jobs for nothing, even when I'm fully expecting to pay.

OP my car's **cked, can you mend it?

MB Yes, and it's normally free, worse end it will be £96 for the repair and it won't need a pump.

OP is my car ready yet?

MB no, and it's £800 to mend ot.

OP You're having a giraffe, I'm coming to get it.

MB You owe us £96 for working out that there's something wrong with it.

OP *I* told you there was something wrong with it.

MB Bend over.

OP How far?

MB £96 far.

OP Go on then big boy...

 

[MOCAŠ]

In fairness MOCAS the OP suggests that Sweetpea would be charged the £96 for a software upgrade not diagnosis.

True, but I'm guessing that either way it amounted to the labour charge associated with connecting the car to Star, and he'd been quoted on the basis he'd be getting the work done. The upgrade would have been done as part of the pump replacement, so when SPX decided to vote with his feet, they would have been left out of pocket for the work already done.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Punctuality is important, but it's not the be all and end all of everything.

A five-minute wait in such circumstances is hardly an ordeal

Not when your sat in the dentist, no, but when you've got a busy day and some putz can't get his **** into gear to attend to a potentially big deal, then you just know that you're going to have problems down the line.



One of the first rules of customer service is to never keep a customer waiting; it makes them feel as though there business is not worthy of you.

 

[camerafodder]

True, but I'm guessing that either way it amounted to the labour charge associated with connecting the car to Star, and he'd been quoted on the basis he'd be getting the work done. The upgrade would have been done as part of the pump replacement, so when SPX decided to vote with his feet, they would have been left out of pocket for the work already done.

A valid point, but it doesnt match what was explained in the OP. They said that the 'worst case scenario' would be that it would cost SPX £96 for a software upgrade which he apparently didn't get even though he got the bill. In fact he got a rather rude shock in the form that it would cost an extra £800 if he wanted the problem fixed despite their earlier comments and despite the fact that MB 'sort of' recognise the whole SBC limited life scenario.

 

[MB-BTurbo]

The first time I saw the issue raised was for an SL.

So by inference it affects CLS too.

What other cars are effected? I have a B class, is this an issue? If there is a list or something to give an idea of what cars have them that could be helpful for others.

 

[MOCAŠ]

I didn't for one minute presume that the dealership would pay in the event that Mercedes wouldn't.

I know you didn't. I was asking the question rhetorically in the context of your tailoring analogy, where you stated: "tailor tells you worse case scenario £96 if they're not covered by the suit makers warranty".

Your main gripe seems to be that you've been charged £96 but the problem hasn't been fixed. That does kind of suggest that you were expecting it to fixed for £96, or for nothing at all. Sometimes we do have to pay for work done even when the outcome isn't what we wanted. I recall paying a garage in Battersea a couple of hours' labour to try and get the windows on my Lancia to run a bit quicker and more smoothly. They stripped down the doors, took apart the mechanism, greased everything liberally, tested the motors and found them to be OK, then put everything back together. Result - windows ran a little more quietly but were still painfully slow. Not what I wanted, and the guy who'd done all the work was a little embarrassed that he hadn't been able to get them working better, but I had no intention of denying him his labour charge - the guy had to eat.

I think the whole no-win no-fee culture these days has infected people's expectations, to the extent that if they don't get what they want, they want someone else to pay for what they did get.

 

[MB-BTurbo]

Not at all, I didn't for one minute presume that the dealership would pay in the event that Mercedes wouldn't.

Re-read some of my posts on this thread;

When I spoke to the dealer and told them the problem and are Mercedes still replacing the SBC FOC, they said that they've never had a claim knocked back.

Worse case scenario from my financial point of view, they said, would be a software update that will cost me £96.

End result, it wasn't the software that was the problem and I became their first ever customer to be rejected for an SBC unit FOC, leading to me walking out with a very very sour taste in my mouth.

If you paid the £96 then Im sure you have entered into a verbal contract. You have paid the £96 and they have told you that is "worst case scenario". What happens next and how it is fixed is not really your concern...now good luck with that, but that is one reason I am contemplating recording with a mic on my phone conversations with dealers. I was told "its a Mercedes, they dont rust", before buying my B class and noticing rust on the tailgate 6 months later. No proof now though. I was also told that "Mercedes shocks wont last more than 4 to 5 years these days"! I would love to have these recorded.

 

[Dryce]

True, but I'm guessing that either way it amounted to the labour charge associated with connecting the car to Star, and he'd been quoted on the basis he'd be getting the work done. The upgrade would have been done as part of the pump replacement, so when SPX decided to vote with his feet, they would have been left out of pocket for the work already done.

I think the original gist was that it would either require an upgrade or replacement.

Upgrade was £96. Replacement was assumed to be free. The situation was that a replacement was needed - not an upgrade. Replacement not free. So customer refused. However dealer assumed that they'd get £96 for connecting STAR and doing the upgrade or that MB would pay or customer would pay.

The problem is that the original advice as reported by the OP is that it would cost for the upgrade or the replacement would be FOC (to the OP - but the dealer would be paid by MB for that).

Net outcome was rather different. OP left without a fix and out of pocket. The initial advice from the dealer, as reported by the OP, was incorrect.

The whole point of the dealers and the premiums they charge is that they know what's what. The reality is rather different IME.

 

[hawk20]

What other cars are effected? I have a B class, is this an issue? If there is a list or something to give an idea of what cars have them that could be helpful for others.

No, not the B class. Someone will confirm but I think MB said only cars produced up to September 2003 - and only those with SBC of course.

 

[Dryce]

What other cars are effected? I have a B class, is this an issue? If there is a list or something to give an idea of what cars have them that could be helpful for others.

It's an SBC issue.

It only affects pre-facelift W211 E Class, pre-facelift W219 CLS, and R230 SL.

The SBC system is an advanced braking system that MB introduced in 2002 with the W211 and R230.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Your main gripe seems to be that you've been charged £96 but the problem hasn't been fixed. That does kind of suggest that you were expecting it to fixed for £96, or for nothing at all. Sometimes we do have to pay for work done even when the outcome isn't what we wanted.

I'd have probably given up if it was anyone else but you Mocas, so I'll explain one last time, I was told;
The SBC pump being replaced has 'always' been covered by Mercedes at this dealer.

If it is not the SBC unit, it will be a software update which will cost £96.

I'm not after anything out of the ordinary here, these are the options that were put to ME.

Thank you and good night.

 

[grumpyoldgit]

'Well, we've never had a claim refused sir'......

If I ever hear those words, I shall insist that the person who says them makes sure he knows for definite and isn't just surmising.

I've read this thread with interest and am amazed not only by the dealers lack of knowledge and uncertainty regarding this potentially dangerous issue, but also by their attitude.

Not know much about this problem and which vehicles were affected, I googled it to find out more. One of the links it threw up was this Mercedes Sensotronic brake-by-wire SBC ABS Pump System Failures « « Sinspeed - Tune Your Desire Sinspeed – Tune Your Desire I know nothing of the company or their abilities, but thought it may be useful to anyone who encounters the same problem with MB's refusal to help, should they have a SBC failure.

 

[MOCAŠ]

I think the original gist was that it would either require an upgrade or replacement.

Upgrade was £96. Replacement was assumed to be free. The situation was that a replacement was needed - not an upgrade. Replacement not free. So customer refused. However dealer assumed that they'd get £96 for connecting STAR and doing the upgrade or that MB would pay or customer would pay.

The problem is that the original advice as reported by the OP is that it would cost for the upgrade or the replacement would be FOC (to the OP - but the dealer would be paid by MB for that).

Thanks Dryce (and Camerafodder). I didn't read the OP that way - to me it seemed that software upgrade was a part of the pump replacement that any goodwill claim wouldn't cover, rather than being an alternative to having the pump replaced.

However, I still think SPX should be happy to pay for the diagnostic work. I really do think the dealership would have absorbed this if he'd gone ahead with having the unit replaced (or that MB would have covered it in their goodwill payment), but simply taking the car back with the work not done was probably the last thing the dealership was expecting to happen and left them in the lurch.

 

[grumpyoldgit]

'Well, we've never had a claim refused sir'......

If I ever hear those words, I shall insist that the person who says them makes sure he knows for definite and isn't just surmising.

I've read this thread with interest and am amazed not only by the dealers lack of knowledge and uncertainty regarding this potentially dangerous issue, but also by their attitude.

Not knowing much about this problem and which vehicles were affected, I googled it to find out more. One of the links it threw up was this Mercedes Sensotronic brake-by-wire SBC ABS Pump System Failures « « Sinspeed - Tune Your Desire Sinspeed – Tune Your Desire I know nothing of the company or their abilities, but thought it may be useful to anyone who encounters the same problem with MB's refusal to help, should they have a SBC failure.

 

[Dryce]

However, I still think SPX should be happy to pay for the diagnostic work.

But he already discussed the with dealer. He had effectively de-risked the situation for them by providing diagnosis.

Given that the advice given to the OP was so poor then it's wrong for the dealer to charge - *and profit* - from the whole transaction.

Under the circumstances offering to halve the fee might have been acceptable but they don't appear to have even done that.

 

[markjay]

SPX brought his car over based on the premise that it would be repaired either for free or for £96.

The dealer carried out the STAR diagnostic based on the premise that they will get the car fixed one way or the other and then get paid for the STAR diagnostic either by MB or by SPX.

It would seem that up to that moment in time, at no point did SPX and the dealer discuss the eventuality of the car not being repaired.

Then MB threw a spanner in the works by apparently moving the goal posts.

Which left the dealer with a problem because they carried out work on the car but didn't actually fix it - a scenario they did not envision and did not discuss with SPX.

Now whose fault is this? There could be many views, but I am not sure the default situation is that SPX has to pick up the tab. Perhaps the dealer could have offered to share the cost of the STAR diagnostic by offering a 50% goodwill contribution off the £96, due to the ambiguity of the situation?

One thing is clear, both parties have learned their lesson. The dealer will very probably not build-up clients expectation over the phone again without finding-out the facts first, and SPX won't be going there again in a hurry.

 

[Dryce]

Now whose fault is this? There could be many views, but I am not sure the default situation is that SPX has to pick up the tab.

In the UK the principle is that the retailer carries the can - it's one of the reasons things are expensive.

If the dealer didn't know then there are two scenarions.

1. MB didn't tell them
2. MB did tell them but they ignored / forgot / didn't understand

If it is (1) then the dealer should go back to MB and tell them that they've been let down a customer because of lack of advice from MB. MB should sort it out.

If it is (2) then that takes us back to the gist of this thread.

I suspect that the actual position is that MB have been coy. Was the original position ever advised in the first place.

Whatever.

It looks bad for the dealer and the brand. MB need to sort this out.

I would add that having had a W211 for over 6 years now that my impression has been that the dealers know FA about them and that MB says FA about them. Which is why we have the Assyst+ confusion, service interval confusion, ATF change vs sealed for life confusion, and service oil grade change confusion, and SBC features confusion, and now SBC replacement confusion.