If I Never Deal With A Main Dealer Again, It'll Be Too Soon, The Shysters!

[MOCAŠ]

Of course we would check for ourselves on our diagnostics that was the case and there were no underlying issues but we would not charge the customer for running the diagnostics.

So you provide free diagnosis, even if the customer doesn't have the work done. The queue must be round the block...

 

[MOCAŠ]

You're right Jay. But they make a rod for their own back. How many of those overheads are essential to provide servicing and maintenance for customer cars. Many independents provide near similar service for 1/2 the price for this very reason.

Yes, but they're specialising in just servicing cars. Runnning a dealership is a different kettle of fish, and there's bound to be some cross-subsidy of different parts of the business. The important thing is that people know where they stand when deciding who will service their car - if a customer doesn't like the main dealer rates, they have alternatives.

 

[markjay]

First, a business does not get to charge customers for evey working hour of the people providing the service.

There are idle times, lunch breaks, training sessions, jobs that need to be done again (through no fault of anyone), annual leave, and the list is long.


Second, a business does not get to charge customers for all of its staff.

On top of the mechanic working on the car, there will be service managers, directors, service advisors, receptionists, apprentices, a cleaner, and even the guy that washes the cars following service (two guys probably, as the cars need to get washed also when the guy is on holiday or sick leave etc).

The hourly rate that they charge the customer has to pay for the hourly rate of all those people, not just for the one mechanic.

And the above only relates to staff salaries. It does not even touch on the costs of premises, insurance, garage equipment, and so on.

I am not suggesting a collection for MB dealers... all I am saying is that the wages that they pay the mechanic who works on a customer's car is an almost irrelevant figure in the big scheme of things. There is little that can be inferred from this regarding the business' overall profitability.

 

[markjay]

A client (who is also a friend) and runs a few 5-Star hotels, once commented to me that he knew exactly how much our guys cost us per hour. I replied that I know exactly how much a guest in a hotel room costs him per night... the subject hasn't been mentioned again. We are still good friends

 

[Rory]

You're right Jay. But they make a rod for their own back. How many of those overheads are essential to provide servicing and maintenance for customer cars. Many independents provide near similar service for 1/2 the price for this very reason.

Franchised dealers are forced to have those overheads by manufacturers.

Manufacturers force dealers to operate to rigid "dealer standards" because the customer surveys they do tell them that we want our cars serviced in glass palaces with coffee, leather seats, big screen TV and internet access.

 

[flango]

So you provide free diagnosis, even if the customer doesn't have the work done. The queue must be round the block...

No thats not what i said Example, If a customer came in and said my MAF as gone as I've had it diagnosed on Star. We would take him at his word put the car on our Star to check he was correct and that they had not missed any underlying issues. We would the replace the MAF and charge only for that. we would not charge for putting the car on our Star to confirm the problem, hope that clarifies.

 

[MOCAŠ]

No thats not what i said Example, If a customer came in and said my MAF as gone as I've had it diagnosed on Star. We would take him at his word put the car on our Star to check he was correct and that they had not missed any underlying issues. We would the replace the MAF and charge only for that. we would not charge for putting the car on our Star to confirm the problem, hope that clarifies.

I know that's what you meant, flanaia1, but the point is that SPX refused to have the work done yet still expected the diagnostics to be free of charge. I think that's unreasonable, but also I don't think they'd have charged him separately for the diagnostic work if he'd gone ahead with the SBC work.

 

[flango]

I know that's what you meant, flanaia1, but the point is that SPX refused to have the work done yet still expected the diagnostics to be free of charge. I think that's unreasonable, but also I don't think they'd have charged him separately for the diagnostic work if he'd gone ahead with the SBC work.

Well I think it's unreasonable, he told them what the problem was yes they should confirm it but I think to charge him for it is unreasonable.

It's a bit like the definition of a consultant, "Someone who asks to borrow your watch and then charges you to tell you the time" thats an MB Dealer

 

[davidjpowell]

When I bought the money-pit (w211) the srs light was on. I thought this was to do with the flat battery, but not so lucky.

I took it to an indie in Doncaster who stuck it on STAR, and gave me a diagnosis. He could not do the work, but charged me £0.

Equipment cost I assume is the same for him as MB.

 

[MOCAŠ]

When I bought the money-pit (w211) the srs light was on. I thought this was to do with the flat battery, but not so lucky.

I took it to an indie in Doncaster who stuck it on STAR, and gave me a diagnosis. He could not do the work, but charged me £0.

Equipment cost I assume is the same for him as MB.

I'd say that's different, as the garage wasn't able to complete the job. I would still have offered to cover their costs, but I can see why they would decide not to charge. It's different if the customer just changes their mind about whether they want the work done.

 

[MOCAŠ]

Well I think it's unreasonable, he told them what the problem was yes they should confirm it but I think to charge him for it is unreasonable.

So I was right, then - I can book a car in with your palce for some work to be done, tell you I've had it diagnosed elsewhere, let you do your own diagnosis, then when you've confirmed what the problem is I can take it back before the work I'd requested has been done - and have nothing to pay?

 

[flango]

So I was right, then - I can book a car in with your palce for some work to be done, tell you I've had it diagnosed elsewhere, let you do your own diagnosis, then when you've confirmed what the problem is I can take it back before the work I'd requested has been done - and have nothing to pay?

How hard is this If you book a car in with us when filling in the job sheet the customer signs to give us an authority to carry out the work. What we charge for is at our discretion, most jobs are done on a pre agreed price and any extra work discovered we always call the customer for authority to proceed. If you booked the car in signed the job sheet and left it with us as most people do you would not be there to take the car back after the initial diagnosis. If you used our facilities and waited and we said to the customer we have diagnosed the fault on your car and you are correct. If he then said OK I've changed my mind and I would like my car back, we would return his car and the charge would be £0 as in our view we would not have carried out any work, In either case we would NOT charge for running confirmatory diagnostics, it's called good customer service unfortunately that's something MB know nothing about.

 

[MB-BTurbo]

People can do many things that are dishonest for a better deal. It sounds like people like flanaia1 would offer this service based on the honesty and integrity of their customers. If it is taken advantage of then maybe he'll just stop. Again, the actions of a few would spoil it for everyone else (I know you're speaking hypothetically). For everyone else though Im sure it is much appreciated and his business increase as a result.

 

[MOCAŠ]

How hard is this If you book a car in with us when filling in the job sheet the customer signs to give us an authority to carry out the work. What we charge for is at our discretion, most jobs are done on a pre agreed price and any extra work discovered we always call the customer for authority to proceed. If you booked the car in signed the job sheet and left it with us as most people do you would not be there to take the car back after the initial diagnosis. If you used our facilities and waited and we said to the customer we have diagnosed the fault on your car and you are correct. If he then said OK I've changed my mind and I would like my car back, we would return his car and the charge would be £0 as in our view we would not have carried out any work, In either case we would NOT charge for running confirmatory diagnostics, it's called good customer service unfortunately that's something MB know nothing about.

So when I suggested that you offer a free diagnositic service, why did you say "No thats not what i said." You're now saying that if someone wanted their car back after you'd done the diagnosis, you wouldn't charge them, which is what I thought you'd said in the first place.

 

[markjay]

There's a difference between being entitled to charge, and actually charging.

Examples where a business did not charge are not proof that a charge wasn't due.

It is down to the individual business owner if he feels he should not be charging for something.

I mentioned here some time ago a black cab driver who kindly refused payment for a short journey. This clearly does not mean that cabbies should not be paid for short journeys...

Some service providers do advertise 'free estimates', and indeed this then becomes a contractual obligation. But otherwise it is always worth asking in advance about charges.

My issue however with the MB dealer in this case is purely on the customer service side - to my mind, where there's ambiguity, or an honest misunderstanding, you should always be the one going the extra mile to accommodate your client.

The argument that he was not a regular doesn't work for me either - it's about reputation.

Had the circumstances been different, DPX would have posted here 'great guys, MB Doncaster, don't use them myself but if you are looking for an honest MB dealer then these are the people to see' etc.

Providing good service makes sense, and always pays back.

 

[flango]

So when I suggested that you offer a free diagnositic service, why did you say "No thats not what i said." You're now saying that if someone wanted their car back after you'd done the diagnosis, you wouldn't charge them, which is what I thought you'd said in the first place.

No if someone walked in wanted or booked a car in for a diagnostic report the cost would be £35. They could then do what they want with the car we can repair it or they take it elsewhere.

If they booked a car in, signed authority for us to work on the car told us what the problem was from an earlier diagnosis, we confirmed it and then they wanted the car back there would be no charge.

Is that clearer ?

 

[MOCAŠ]

No if someone walked in wanted or booked a car in for a diagnostic report the cost would be £35. They could then do what they want with the car we can repair it or they take it elsewhere.

If they booked a car in, signed authority for us to work on the car told us what the problem was from an earlier diagnosis, we confirmed it and then they wanted the car back there would be no charge.

Is that clearer ?

Yes, but it seems inconsistent, as the work you've had to do is the same either way - so your honest customers are effectively subsiding they shysters that claim they've been somewhere else first and just want you to confirm it. I'm sure you don't actually have customers doing this, but if people knew they could get away with it...

 

[MOCAŠ]

There's a difference between being entitled to charge, and actually charging.

Exactly. My issue with flanaia1's view is that he believes it was unreasonable for the garage to charge SPX for the diagnostics. It wasn't unreasonable at all, as they'd done the work, but I accept they could still have decided to waive the fee if they'd wanted to.

 

[flango]

Yes, but it seems inconsistent, as the work you've had to do is the same either way - so your honest customers are effectively subsiding they shysters that claim they've been somewhere else first and just want you to confirm it. I'm sure you don't actually have customers doing this, but if people knew they could get away with it...

No the level of work is different for a full diagnostic report Vs fault finding and testing a component to correct a problem.

 

[MOCAŠ]

No the level of work is different for a full diagnostic report Vs fault finding and testing a component to correct a problem.

OK, so we're saying the work done by the MB garage wouldn't have justifiied an hour's labour charge (although I accept that it normally means an hour or part thereof). If it would only have been a few minutes' work, that puts a slightly different complexion on it, but I'd have still have expected to pay something just for fact that they'd had the car in their workshop.

Happy to agree to differ, though, as I'm sure this is getting a bit tedious for you.