is manual really that bad

[ROBB]

So one hand on the wheel and the other pulling a lever is safer than two hands on the wheel?

We've now gone full circle of course because keeping both hands on the wheel while the automatic transmission chooses the correct gear to be in MUST be safer than one hand on the wheel and the other on a gearstick! Plus if your car's doing the changes then it's easier to send text messages, unwrap chewing gum, gulp down some piping hot coffee or unzip a banana! :bannana:

i meant - i'll stick to my safest option: dont

rob

PS hope the co-pilot is a foxy redhead - cos fetching the pencil back to stow in the glove box might be the highlight of the day !!

 

[mercedes lover]

Why can't you? Pull the release handle for the parking brake and slide a pencil or something into the gap so it can't go back. Now you have a second foot-brake which only engages the rear wheels. You can do handbrake turns with both hands on the wheel, much safer I'm sure!

Hey I never thought of that I think IKEA pencils should be the right to size

After reading your other post I realised how much more I can do whilst driving my Auto :bannana:

 

[219]

Just catching up with this thread ........

But you brake with your right foot and accelerate with the same one. The left leg uses the clutch so all 3 pedals can be controlled just fine.

I don't : In my automatic cars I accelerate with my right foot and brake with my left - been doing that for 30 years , so it's totally instinctive ; I'll even cadence brake with my left foot in a non-ABS auto .

I can still switch over to manual mode and do the 'soft shoe shuffle' juggling between pedals with my right foot , or just brake with my left where gear changing does not accompany braking . Then , having been taught double de-clutching and clutchless gear changing by my haulage contractor father , I can always just use the clutch to get moving , then forget about it .

My original point is just that two pedals = two feet : one for go , one for stop is , to me , simplicity itself .

With an auto I (anyway) very seldom left foot brake. The pedals simply are not set up for it with the brake pedal being too high and set over to the right to make it a feasible option. Later MBs IIRC don't allow the simultaneous application of brake and acclerator as the fuel is cut to the engine when the brake is applied so you're either using one pedal or the other so no need to have as many legs as pedals.

As above , I do it all the time . I seldom overlap braking and accelerating ( don't drive 'electronic' autos ) other than , perhaps , when braking on the approach to a bend on a fast road I'll manually select a lower gear ( the car would not normally select the lower gear by itself until you come off brakes and back onto power , resulting in a 'jolt' which could upset the car at a critical point ) but by gently applying a little power whilst still controlling the braking , you can bring in a part throttle downshift and ease into the power whilst easing off the brakes - much smoother , more efficient and faster - very satisfying technique to master .

My point is, that for the vast majority of drivers, including myself, exploiting the extra finesse a manual car offers isn't realistic and for road driving an auto provides all the control that our skill set can exploit. Especially now with manual overides etc.

I don't associate finesse with manual boxes . To me you have more control in an auto : your hands stay on the wheel more of the time ; I can ALWAYS have it in the gear I want - not the gear it might want to be in .

 

[219]

Tired of hearing this excuse

hand operated brake.

1. You depress the clutch with your left foot. step on the gas, get the biting point and use your left hand to release your hand brake.

2. In a merc. you depress the clutch with your left foot, step on the gas, get the biting point and release your brake with the right hand. How is that different?

On stopping on a gradient, you are supposed to put your car in neutral according to the highway code, and the pull up your handbrake, while keeping your foot on the brake.

Same with a merc, you put your car in neutral, your left foot is now free to depress to footbrake.

any one who cannot stop or start on a gradient with a merc, cannot stop or start on a gradient with any manual car. fullstop. they should take more lessons and not blame the car.

except you all drive off after first releasing the handbrake which is bad driving if the car is not on the biting point and ready to go. _

If you need an extra leg for a manual merc, then you need an extra arm for any other manaul car.

As per my previous reply -

I'm not talking about foot operated parking brakes , nor even Mercedes in particular ; I just don't like having more pedals in front of me than I have feet for . The widely disliked FOPB , incidentally , is only fitted to a small number of recent model Mercs ( although older LHD ones had them as they were popular on the continent , for some reason ) .

To me , a FOPB combined with a manual would be a nightmare . Disengaging it when moving off on a hill is not a problem since the 'fly off' lever is hand operated - no different to any other car - but engaging it in the proper sequence : handbrake THEN neutral is impossible .

On the subject of proper proceedures , how many manual drivers bother to select a parking gear ? So many people leave their cars in neutral , relying solely on the parking brake , it beggars belief . The correct proceedure , of course , is to select either first , or reverse , whichever would cause the car to move uphill - on the flat normally first would be your parking gear . Of course in a SAAB or a 1920's/1930's Mercedes S , SS , SSK or SSKL you have no choice as the gearbox has to be locked in reverse before you can withdraw the key .

I've had two W124 automatics with FOPB and never found it a problem , just inconvenient having to shuffle right foot off accelerator onto footbrake then left foot onto parking brake pedal .

All my other cars , including a few MANUAL Mercs ( yes , I've had them - still own two : the Ponton and the Fintail - cloumn change manual with 'umbrella' handbrakes under the dash ) have had other arrangements : the W114 and 115 had the pull out handbrake lever on the right of the dash , as carried over into the W123 , W116 and W126 . The W113 had a 'conventional' handbrake on the left of the tunnel ( set up for LHD and a long reach ) ; W201's also have 'conventional' handbrakes in the middle as do R107's . I've also had a Hilman Minx with handbrake on the floor to the right of the driver's seat ! No matter where is is situated , a hand operated parking brake is not a problem , you certainly don't need 'an extra arm' as you shouldn't be doing anything else whilst applying/releasing it , other than holding the steering wheel with your other hand .

 

[renault12ts]

As per my previous reply -

I'm not talking about foot operated parking brakes , nor even Mercedes in particular ; I just don't like having more pedals in front of me than I have feet for . The widely disliked FOPB , incidentally , is only fitted to a small number of recent model Mercs ( although older LHD ones had them as they were popular on the continent , for some reason ) .

To me , a FOPB combined with a manual would be a nightmare . Disengaging it when moving off on a hill is not a problem since the 'fly off' lever is hand operated - no different to any other car - but engaging it in the proper sequence : handbrake THEN neutral is impossible.

Small number? All Es Cs etc!!

 

[219]

N.B. Anyone else noticed that in traffic you can change the creep speed of your auto by switching the the W/S switch to switch between second and first.

I imagine it will be the same as selecting L , B or 2 in an earlier automatic - gives the car the chance to use the rarely selected 1st gear . In the W126 , with the selector lever in '2' , you then slide it to the right as indicated by the arrow with 'B' beside it , to manually select bottom gear .

A 500 locked into first can be quite entertaining !

 

[219]

Small number? All Es Cs etc!!

Yes , but these are only a couple of model ranges out of Mercedes vast line up , and only from W124 onwards . The millions of cars made before then don't have it

 

[219]

PS hope the co-pilot is a foxy redhead - cos fetching the pencil back to stow in the glove box might be the highlight of the day !!

For those who have TomTom sat nav - it is well worth downloading one of the voices 'Sylvia' : this INCREDIBLY sexy sounding woman comes out with statements like " Toll road ahead ................ can I help you get your change out ??? "

 

[ROBB]

For those who have TomTom sat nav - it is well worth downloading one of the voices 'Sylvia' : this INCREDIBLY sexy sounding woman comes out with statements like " Toll road ahead ................ can I help you get your change out ??? "

ROFL

is there a Kylie one?? might change from the Garmin for that :bannana:

 

[recycled]

As per my previous reply -

I'm not talking about foot operated parking brakes , nor even Mercedes in particular ; I just don't like having more pedals in front of me than I have feet for . The widely disliked FOPB , incidentally , is only fitted to a small number of recent model Mercs ( although older LHD ones had them as they were popular on the continent , for some reason ) .

To me , a FOPB combined with a manual would be a nightmare . Disengaging it when moving off on a hill is not a problem since the 'fly off' lever is hand operated - no different to any other car - but engaging it in the proper sequence : handbrake THEN neutral is impossible .

On the subject of proper proceedures , how many manual drivers bother to select a parking gear ? So many people leave their cars in neutral , relying solely on the parking brake , it beggars belief . The correct proceedure , of course , is to select either first , or reverse , whichever would cause the car to move uphill - on the flat normally first would be your parking gear . Of course in a SAAB or a 1920's/1930's Mercedes S , SS , SSK or SSKL you have no choice as the gearbox has to be locked in reverse before you can withdraw the key .

I've had two W124 automatics with FOPB and never found it a problem , just inconvenient having to shuffle right foot off accelerator onto footbrake then left foot onto parking brake pedal .

All my other cars , including a few MANUAL Mercs ( yes , I've had them - still own two : the Ponton and the Fintail - cloumn change manual with 'umbrella' handbrakes under the dash ) have had other arrangements : the W114 and 115 had the pull out handbrake lever on the right of the dash , as carried over into the W123 , W116 and W126 . The W113 had a 'conventional' handbrake on the left of the tunnel ( set up for LHD and a long reach ) ; W201's also have 'conventional' handbrakes in the middle as do R107's . I've also had a Hilman Minx with handbrake on the floor to the right of the driver's seat ! No matter where is is situated , a hand operated parking brake is not a problem , you certainly don't need 'an extra arm' as you shouldn't be doing anything else whilst applying/releasing it , other than holding the steering wheel with your other hand .

I will ever ever own an auto in any car i have. It will always be a manual and if that is not to be the case, i will not drive a car.
BTW i always park my car in first gear with the foot brake on. Never had a manual problem, operating handbrakes or footbrakes. I do not need an extra foot, and i am in whatever gear i like not for some electronic jargon telling me it is in safe mode, or cruise home mode or selecting gears for me cos it is slippery or snowing.

We drive what we are comfy with.

 

[recycled]

Just catching up with this thread ........



I don't : In my automatic cars I accelerate with my right foot and brake with my left - been doing that for 30 years , so it's totally instinctive ; I'll even cadence brake with my left foot in a non-ABS auto .

.

Hope you did not do this in your test or admit it in court if you are involved in a crash.

TBH even if i had to buy to buy an auto, which i would unlikely ever do nowadays, it will have to be a toyota or mazda and certainly not an MB with the hassle it gives, and the cost of fixing it.

 

[Shude]

I will ever ever own an auto in any car i have. It will always be a manual and if that is not to be the case, i will not drive a car.

I'm amazed at such strength of opinion over something that's frankly quite trivial!

I happily drive manuals or autos although I prefer autos day-to-day because I find they make for a more relaxing drive and make long queues a lot easier. I would never state that I'd give up driving if one or the other became no longer available!

 

[recycled]

It is the strength of opinion yes, but it is a personal opinion, made from the fact i have had all, and i mean all my autos unreliable, very expensive to fix and always very hard to sort out first time. And it has always let me down in the worst places.
A lot of people , including my brother has had a problem free auto in his 5 series, but his MB was problem packed.

All my autos, including 3 MBs ,a few peugeots. the ease of driving is just not worth it to me i'm afraid. But this is me personally, not anyone else and i would happily give up a brand if there is no manual equivalent. I would drive one, don't get me wrong, i just would not own and run one as a personal car.

 

[Shude]

All my autos, including 3 MBs ,a few peugeots. the ease of driving is just not worth it to me i'm afraid. But this is me personally, not anyone else

I was simply concerned that you were one of those people that are basically afraid of automatics! They do exist! They're up there with people who are afraid of motorways because they're "dangerous" - I've known two of these!

Can I ask what actually went wrong with the autos? My previous W202 was faultless and my current one only had problems at about 170k when a gearbox cooling pipe corroded and it lost some ATF. A new pipe and oil change sorted it out.

 

[Doodle]

It is the strength of opinion yes, but it is a personal opinion, made from the fact i have had all, and i mean all my autos unreliable, very expensive to fix and always very hard to sort out first time. And it has always let me down in the worst places.

Old school hydraulic autos FTW

Do not enter into that abyss made dark by perverted electrickery.

 

[recycled]

the first mb and peugeot, 405 had torque converter problems. fixed three times but kept on breaking. The peugeot had the box changed under warranty but the converter broke again. I asked the dealer if it was my driving style, i was that paranoid, he said there is no driving style to it. put it in d and off you go.

The next MB had a grinding noise when left in park and did not hold the car. Th auto specialist in speke liverpool, said something about gear slippage (i did not know what he was on about)very few specialists here. when in drive, with the footbrake on, it would jar and shudder violently and then when i took it off into N it would whine and whine. It drove ok but the shuddering was terrible at the lights/
( has anyone experienced that) all w202 as well.

The last MB c180 classic i had it for all of 5 weeks before i cut my losses, lost £1500 in the resale so you must know how p15sed off i was, it would throw you between the changes and a great clang between the gears. After changing filter, oil, fluid, e.t. c it was ok for about 4 days then itwould stat, intermittently, never permanent but one day ok , next day no chance. It was a nightmare driving into work, you could sometimes hear the clanging coming and at the lights i was the centre of attraction.As i was no specialist i was at the mercy of specialists, dealers, whatever and it made me mad.

I have had a w202 c200 sport manual, no problem.
My wife now uses my C180 sport manaul and we use it on family travels, no problem. Only problem is a slight buzz when going into second if you are not precise with the lever, but it always moves and will get you going. No safe mode or clangs

 

[para alpha]

Perhaps - but then are we all lazy for driving automatic MBs? :bannana:

I dare you to remove your electric windows and other luxuries that you take for granted. What about remote central locking - why bother - you can just walk around the car and lock/unlock everything manually

Will

I do? I have no remote locking? I have manual windows... And yes, a manual box..

 

[219]

Hope you did not do this in your test or admit it in court if you are involved in a crash.

I hadn't learned the technique , nor experienced an automatic , back when I passed my basic MOT driving test at age 17 in a manual W115 with column change and right hand handbrake .

I have , however , sat various advanced driving tests using both feet in automatics , including passing 'The League of Safe Drivers' test at grade 1 ( the equivalent , or better , of Rospa Gold ) , passed at that level by Ian Dalling who is now Rospa chief examiner for Scotland and not a word of criticism from him for it .

Why do you think it would present a problem in court ? Left foot braking is not illegal . BTW , in an emergency situation with an automatic equipped with ABS , the best thing is to mash the big pedal to the floor with BOTH feet , hard as you can , and let the ABS do the work . The pedal is that size to allow either or both feet do the braking .

My experience with gearboxes is that I've had problems with manuals , mainly clutches wearing out over high mileages , hydraulics failing or cables braking , one release bearing breaking up , gear linkages breaking or coming apart .

Never had any trouble with any of my automatic boxes at all - all have been earlier generations than your cars ( W116 , W123 , W124 , W201 and W126 ) -perhaps the older ones are more robust ? My 430,000 mile W124 was on it's second engine at that mileage , but the box was original and still changing smoothly .

We all have our preferences .