I've been sold a lemon, 450SL 1979

[dinoy]

as i far as know the 350 has single timing chain whilst 450 has double chain, also the torque it produces is total different from 350 to 450.

so it would have needed more work than just slot the engine and go.

i would hazard a guess many things need changing to get to 450 which would require the 450 slc parts but i have never researched this.

it is just some info to help.

 

[SL300-24]

I don't think you have any comeback. You should have checked the engine and chassis numbers before you bought the car. Maybe the seller did not even know about the engine chnge.
I suspect you have to bite the bullet and get the engine problem sorted.

 

[kth286]

it would be interesting to know how long the previous owner had the car.

 

[219]

Just now that I think of it , our very own Leigh (EDZ649) is breaking the 450SEL he bought to restore and turned out to need a lot of bodywork .

If I remember , there was a minor issue with the engine not idling or not revving , but I think it was basically a sound engine . It would be worthwhile PM-ing Leigh to find out more - only drawback is he's just about the other end of the country .

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

I think this is te pertinant point.

The vehicle doesn't match its description

...... Ask them for a refund or for the cost of any repairs, depending on what you want them to do. If this does not succeed, your only other option is to take the seller to court. However, you should bear in mind that it can be especially difficult to get any compensation from a private seller.

FFS the bas.... would probably get away with it.

OK I'm going to send them a speculative letter with no expectation of success and take it on the chin and move on.

Next, better the devil you know? When I bought the car it ran like a dog, but is now running well (except for the problem on cylinder 8). Now I have no intention of selling the car at any point, rather will give it away to one of my kids if it is still running in 20 years.

I plan toi stip the head and get the exhaust vavle fixed over the winter which will probably cost me sub £500 all in. A lot cheapre than buying another engine and fitting. Also any second hand £500 quid engine could have just as many problems as the one I have now.

Given all that, I think I will stick to the devil I know.

Thanks for all your help and comments.

 

[Tiff]

Caveat emptor !

"Caveat emptor is a Latin term meaning "let the buyer beware". It is a general rule of law that a purchaser assumes the risk of his/her purchase. The intent of the rule is to place a duty of care on the buyer in selecting an item and putting forth appropriate inquiry before completing the sale. In this way, a seller is also protected from liability for buyer's remorse."

Sorry to say this, but one of the basics of buying a car it to check the numbers..if you are bothered about this sort of thing. I buy a car for what it is- and look at it as anything it should be is my lookout,if that makes sense. Been there myself and felt bad because I didn't notice at the time, but after money has changed hands it's too late..just like auctions really.

 

[markjay]

From a legal point of view... if the car left the factory as a 450SL... and later in it's life had the original engine swapped with a smaller unit (from 350SL).... then it is still an 450SL, albeit with a smaller engine.... had the car been advertised as a 350SL, that would have been wrong....

Now the questions are (a) did the seller know that the engine has been swapped, and if so can you prove that he knew? and (b) if he did know, was he actually obliged to tell you about this?

 

[wobbly]

Just to confirm, does the Chassis number of the car match the log books number.

Also what are the three numbers after W107 in the Chassis number, just trying to establish if it is a 450 with a 350 engine.

 

[jaymanek]

Legal stance is private sale = no warranty... not even up to the end of the sellers driveway... once the cash changes hands, end of story.

The rest is down to your talents in the persuasion department.

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

Just to confirm, does the Chassis number of the car match the log books number.

Also what are the three numbers after W107 in the Chassis number, just trying to establish if it is a 450 with a 350 engine.

My VIN is 107 044 220 578 34

Original engine number 117 985 220 460 61

The previous owner did know that it was a replacement engine, but it had been put in before he bought it. He said that he had bought it from a dealer friend around Andover.

I have about 15 years of paperwork for the car and a bill for £2500 for the replacement engine being put in, but there is no indication that it was a 350.

I spotted that it was noty the original engine immediately due to some yellow paint marks on the cam cover. However being new to MB I had no idea that the 350 looked identical to the 450.

Now you may say that I am an idiot for not checking the engine number but for those who have not tried to read the engine number on one of these cars, it is almost impossible to see as its down the back of the engine. I'm still strugling to read the full number on mine now I know where it is.

As for checking the VIN with the chassis, I'll do that when Im back from Germany tomorrow.

You live and learn.

 

[LTD]

I have about 15 years of paperwork for the car and a bill for £2500 for the replacement engine being put in, but there is no indication that it was a 350.

I spotted that it was noty the original engine immediately due to some yellow paint marks on the cam cover. However being new to MB I had no idea that the 350 looked identical to the 450.

.... and that is where any legal standpoint ends

 

[219]

I spotted that it was noty the original engine immediately due to some yellow paint marks on the cam cover.

My 500 also has paint marks on the cam cover , worried me when I saw it , but my numbers DO match and no issues with the engine ; I have since seen similar markings on a few other 8 cyl cars .

 

[wobbly]

My VIN is 107 044 220 578 34

Original engine number 117 985 220 460 61

The previous owner did know that it was a replacement engine, but it had been put in before he bought it. He said that he had bought it from a dealer friend around Andover.

I have about 15 years of paperwork for the car and a bill for £2500 for the replacement engine being put in, but there is no indication that it was a 350.

I spotted that it was noty the original engine immediately due to some yellow paint marks on the cam cover. However being new to MB I had no idea that the 350 looked identical to the 450.

Now you may say that I am an idiot for not checking the engine number but for those who have not tried to read the engine number on one of these cars, it is almost impossible to see as its down the back of the engine. I'm still strugling to read the full number on mine now I know where it is.

As for checking the VIN with the chassis, I'll do that when Im back from Germany tomorrow.

You live and learn.

Ok, I was trying to establish if the car may have been a ringer, maybe then you could have had some recall with the previous owner.

But this is the first time in the thread that you have stated that you knew the engine had been changed.

I really think you should accept your mistake, get the car sorted, and stop looking for someone to blame, you were not forced to buy this car, it was your choice.

 

[SilverSaloon]

Sorry to hear this Jim. Hope you get it sorted and can continue to enjoy the car.

As with others, you'll have no comeback to the seller...

If it helps, looking at the EPC, chassis is a 450 SL: 450 SL USA and should have 117985 M117 4.5 engine in.

 

[dickchailey]

The VIN 107 044 220 578 34 comes back with-
Original parts: engine 117985 22 046061 and Transmission 02 058929 on the datacard (EPC net). Paint code 931.
Thats a M117 4.5 is it not!

(just as SiverSaloon says)

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

OK more info on the VIN,

There is a number stamped on to the cross member in front of the radiators, it matches the V5 - 107 044 22 057834

However there is also a plate on the same cross member with lots of numbers stamped on it, the second number down is - 107 044 22 001555

I have also now managed to read the entire engine number which is - 116 984 22 000050 can anyone throw anymore light on this?

 

[jonnyboy]

On epc, first vin shows 450 sl with a datacard, 2nd shows a 450 sl without a datacard. Engine number appears to show a 450 engine:-

 

[corned]

Is there a VIN stamped anywhere else on a 107? The scuttle/bulkhead area, or under the floor for example?

Personally, I would be inclined to compare that (if there is one) with what is stamped on that crossmember.

 

[jonnyboy]

Is there a VIN stamped anywhere else on a 107? The scuttle/bulkhead area, or under the floor for example?

Personally, I would be inclined to compare that (if there is one) with what is stamped on that crossmember.

So would I !!!!

 

[A210AMG]

Does it Really matter whats in it now the deals done?

As long as the car runs well and you like it? I appreciate it may not be what you thought but you now have to either make best and enjoy it or sell it and move on.


Like most of us we learn from mistakes.


I know nothing about these cars is a 350 / 450 either v6 or v8 or are they both v8's with different CC's?