Knocking on steering on new GLC

[John Jones Jr]

Wow...

To brighten your day and since you previously mentioned a Porsche, here's something to mull over.

Porsche Macan GTS (2016) review by CAR Magazine

 

[Dryce]

Wow, looking back at Dryce's responses to my criticism of the GLC, speaks volumes, obviously in his eyes, there could never be design faults and quality issues with the car.

I understand though, it's better and easier to say, the driver must be either a bit of a plonker or has had some sort of medical episode.

Well - maybe a bit too much exposure on my part to dealing with technical issues and human factors.

I think you misrepresent me somewhat. You're mixing up raising a question and making a suggestion with coming to conclusion.

The problem with taking an objective view is that people involved often think you're doing the opposite because they don't like covering all the possibilities and outcomes equally.

 

[hallra]

Well - maybe a bit too much exposure on my part to dealing with technical issues and human factors.

I think you misrepresent me somewhat. You're mixing up raising a question and making a suggestion with coming to conclusion.

The problem with taking an objective view is that people involved often think you're doing the opposite because they don't like covering all the possibilities and outcomes equally.

I think that coming on a car forum, you would hope that people stick to commenting on car matters.

Perhaps it wasn't meant to come across as it has, but unfortuantely this can happen on open public forums, so best stick to the topic of conversation.

 

[hallra]

To brighten your day and since you previously mentioned a Porsche, here's something to mull over.

Porsche Macan GTS (2016) review by CAR Magazine

Thanks John

 

[grober]

This thread started simply enough with several forum members describing a disconcerting effect they were experiencing when manoeuvring their RHD GLC at full steering lock. Although there were minor differences to the circumstances under which this effect was experienced , ambient temperature, surface composition, wheelsize/ tyre aspect ratio etc a fairly consistent picture began to emerge from several owners of the same effect. Many suggestions were made as to the cause, possibly related to steering geometry or transmission wind up. Similar effects were experienced in other models at full lock both AWD and RWD and described as "tyre scrub" . Indeed Mercedes suggested that swapping to a winter tyre fitment would at least ameliorate the effect. I think we are left with 2 possibilities:-
1 tyre scrub
2. transmission wind up.
after watching that video again I am rather inclined to the second option.[YOUTUBE]VTT0U8fciR0[/YOUTUBE]




Perhaps what is important here is that the effect is reproducible. Same car same manoeuvre under the same conditions= same effect.
Unfortunately "one off" events such as hallras accident are not repeatable and thus can have little bearing on this discussion. In fact prolonged speculation as to the cause of his misfortune merely serves to distract from the primary subject of the thread.

 

[hallra]

Yes I agree that my misfortune is a bit of a distraction to this forum thread.

Though, my first thoughts during/after the accident, were that the front wheel had slipped/juddered/scrubbed, whatever you like to call it, and that led to a lose of control of the car and ultimately the collision with the wall.
- The accident was on block paving just like the video above, though the incline was a lot steeper.

 

[hallra]

Yes I agree that my misfortune is a bit of a distraction to this forum thread.

Though, my first thoughts during/after the accident, were that the front wheel had slipped/juddered/scrubbed, whatever you like to call it, and that led to a lose of control of the car and ultimately the collision with the wall.
- The accident was on block paving just like the video above, though the incline was a lot steeper.

The slip/judder/scrub on my GLC has occured with as little as a quarter turn of the steering wheel, full lock is not required.

 

[prettyboy]

The tyre tracks in the pictures look like the car was going straight ahead tho, not turning. Unless I'm looking at the wrong tyre tracks.

 

[hallra]

The tyre tracks in the pictures look like the car was going straight ahead tho, not turning. Unless I'm looking at the wrong tyre tracks.

I think the tyre tracks are a bit misleading as many exist in the picture, my wheels would have been turning the car left until the moment that grip was lost and then go straight on into the wall.

It's a 90 degree turn into the block paving area, and so the wheels could have slipped/juddered at that point which caused the initial lost of grip/traction.

- The tyre marks that go straight in the picture would be the bin lorry, as it is 2 sets of wheels on each side





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[prettyboy]

Fair enough mate. I realised when I looked again that the two obvious ones going straight ahead can't be yours cos you can actually see the point of impact on the wall.

 

[ShaneyB]

Apologies if this already been said but I was out in my colleagues S63 today and that also crabbed.

 

[hallra]

Apologies if this already been said but I was out in my colleagues S63 today and that also crabbed.

I was talking to the sales person who sold me the GLC today, he told me Mercedes have a big problem because a lot of their cars, not just GLC, are suffering from the same issue.

 

[Sanqhar]

Check out the Honest John website as well as YouTube. There is a fair bit on this. Mercedes only response so far is telling owners to fit winter tyres!
Tom

 

[dejongj]

A website has launched to aid those owners affected to group together and collate securely information.

https://www.mercedescrabbing.org

It would be good when those affected register to aid communication across the various online communities.

 

[RehanGLC]

My very negative experience with MBUK when escalating this isue

Hi all,

I have had a very negative experience with Mercedes Benz UK when escalating the issue.

Heres my mail chain with MBUK CEO escalations office:

I have now also done a video of appeal to CEO MBUK Gary Savage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mhn-cK3VIQ

Hi Gary and Mark

I hope you are both well and trust you had a Happy Christmas and New Year.

I am a disabled man with below knee artificial legs and deformed hands.

In September 2016 I took delivery of a brand new Mercedes Benz GLC 250d AMG Line Premium Plus – with registration - RE06 HAN.

I have found that since delivery on day one, the car skips/jumps/judders when turning in any direction at slow speed on full lock in either direction. This I feel, is not safe at all.

The reason that I have written at such a senior level is because I don’t feel confident that any dealership would be able to manage this issue to a successful conclusion, they may but it would take a very long time I feel. This is a serious issue and I don’t want to be told, that it’s the cold weather, it’s the tyres etc. etc. I have not yet approached my dealer as I don’t want to “run around” and try and manage this issue with several escalations and so on lasting a period of months. This is why I have directly written to you for advice.

I would be very grateful if someone at a senior level could assist me with my journey into investigating this issue. As you can understand, I cannot be without a car and hence this issue is of the utmost importance for me.

Having read several blogs regarding this issue, I have found that I am not the only customer with the problem and that Mercedes have already recognised this as “skipping” and an “unwanted characteristic”.

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/general-discussion/201420-knocking-steering-new-glc-2.html

I am looking for the following please:

1) A quick resolution to the issue if Mercedes are already aware of a fix.

Or

2) A full refund so that I can go and purchase another car.
3) There will clearly be abnormal wear on the tyres due to this issue and I would like to know what Mercedes can do regarding this as clearly I will have to replace these tyres sooner than normal.

Gentlemen, I look forward to your reply as soon as possible.

I have copied in Mercedes customer service, David Gregory my sales executive at Mercedes Brooklands and Steve Palmer the General Manager at Mercedes Brooklands.

Thank you for your time.

Warm Regards

Rehan Siddiqui



Dear Mr Rehan,

Thank you for copying me in with your email to Senior Management of Mercedes Benz UK. I just need to advise you that Mr Whittington nor Mr West work for MBUK anymore. I am sorry you are experiencing an issue with your car which will be taken seriously by MB Brooklands. I’m sure you will understand that in order for anyone at MBUK to be involved with this case and your concerns, the car will need to be inspected before any solutions can be considered.

With this in mind I have copied the Aftersales Manager, who will arrange for you to be contacted later today and arrange an initial booking and inspect the car. Once this has happened we can propose what Mercedes Benz next step will be.

I hope you find this proposal satisfactory.

Regards
Steve Palmer
General Manager
Mercedes-Benz Brooklands


Dear Mr Siddiqui

In response to your e-mail to Mr Savage, I would like to acknowledge receipt.

We were sorry to hear that you are experiencing this issue with your GLC and can appreciate your concern.

This characteristic comes from flexibility within the tyre sidewall, the grip between the front tyres and the type of road surface being driven over. It is something which can be felt only at very low speeds, and when a certain percentage of wheel lock is engaged for turning. This is demonstratively more evident in colder temperatures due to the changes in the tyre rubber elasticity.

As per the Mercedes-Benz Digital Handbook for your car, we would always recommend the use of winter tyres for temperatures which fall below approximately +7 degrees. The recommendation given to improve this characteristic would be to change the tyres on your car to suitable tyres for the winter period.

Please be assured that this is a comfort issue and does not affect the safety or overall performance of your car.

Thank you for taking the time to make us aware, and I sincerely hope our response helps to allay your concerns.

Kind regards

Kylie Skilton
CEO Office
Mercedes-Benz Cars Limited



Dear Kylie,

Thank you very much for your prompt response with this matter.

Unfortunately I cannot accept the root cause statement you have provided for the following reasons:

· I took delivery of the car in September 2016 and this issue has been happening since then.
· This has been a very mild winter apart from the last couple of weeks with temperatures around 13 – 20 degrees. It was happening in September/October when temperatures were around 20 degrees
· The issue occurs on all types of roads, on my driveway at home, on a normal road, in my work car park, in shopping mall car parks – in fact everywhere.
· The issue is especially apparent when reversing at full lock at slow speed and the car judders/skids around 2-5 centimetres – this happens in either direction
· I have been driving since 1992 and have always had premium cars including 4x4’s and have never experienced this issue.
· I cannot agree that this is a comfort issue as the car should not slip/skip/lose grip at all at slow speed. This is also a safety issue.


Steve Palmer the general manager at Mercedes Brooklands has helped me to book the car in for inspection on Friday 13th January.

If this issue cannot be remedied then I would like to proceed with a “rejection” of the car and request a full refund of the amount I have already paid including my deposit.

However I appreciate and understand that the car does need to be inspected first and Steve has been supportive in this matter.

Once the car has been inspected and any conclusions have been drawn by the dealer, I will keep you updated.

Thank you once again for your support.


Thank You.

Warm Regards


Dear Gary and Kylie,

I hope you are well.

I would like to update you with the current situation of my car.

Firstly I am quite disappointed in the fact that the CEO office (Kylie) has not followed up with me after your last mail to me below. I would have thought that you would have mailed me back for an update given my physical circumstances.

Steve Perrett at MB World Brooklands has been wonderful, although Steve was also not able to fix the issue for me, as it quite clearly is a design/production flaw. Steve demonstrated the issue himself with a brand new unregistered car to my wife and I.

Steve had my own car examined and there is no technical fault with the car but as we all know, the issue of the crabbing and skipping is occurring with all of the production GLC/C class AMG cars.

Gary/Kylie, Last week I needed to do a u-turn and my GLC did not respond at all well at low speed as whilst I turned it continued on straight for a few inches and the same happened one recent night when turning left into my home drive way, the left turn did not execute and the car continued straight for a few inches, this was not safe at all. These incidents are on top of the daily ongoing skipping/juddering/crabbing/skidding.

As you all know from my last few mails, I am disabled having no hands and I wear two below knee artificial legs and therefore I would say that safety is of paramount concern to me. My experience is that I do not feel the car is safe and I cannot trust it. I also am not having any enjoyment at all from the vehicle due to this issue. If I had been made aware of the issue before the sale then I would have not placed the order and would have bought something else.

Kylie/Gary and Steve, as an organisation at Mercedes Benz UK, I would like to please request some additional urgent consideration for my case.

What I would like; is to formally reject the car and request my deposit is refunded and any payments I have made to date so that I can return the car and order something else.

Please could you consider my case as a priority and reply back as soon as possible so that we can start this process.


Thank You.

Warm Regards


Dear Mr Siddiqui

I am sorry you are disappointed with my previous response, this was certainly not my intention.

To offer our assurances once more, following investigation completed by Mercedes-Benz Brooklands, this is a comfort issue and does not affect the safety or overall performance of your car. That said, I do appreciate your comments and we do recognise this remains a comfort issue for some of our customers and would like to reassure you that investigations are ongoing in the UK to try and minimise this characteristic.

We are therefore unable to support your request to reject your car and refunded your deposit and any payments made at this time.

Please rest assured, as soon as we have further information regarding this characteristic, we will of course let you know.

We appreciate that you remain disappointed by this characteristic, and understand this may not be the response you were hoping for, but this is our final position regarding this matter.

Kind regards

Kylie Skilton
CEO Office
Mercedes-Benz Cars UK Limited

 

[DRIVER200]

Hi all,

I have had a very negative experience with Mercedes Benz UK when escalating the issue.

Heres my mail chain with MBUK CEO escalations office:

I have now also done a video of appeal to CEO MBUK Gary Savage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mhn-cK3VIQ

Hi Gary and Mark

I hope you are both well and trust you had a Happy Christmas and New Year.

I am a disabled man with below knee artificial legs and deformed hands.

In September 2016 I took delivery of a brand new Mercedes Benz GLC 250d AMG Line Premium Plus – with registration - RE06 HAN.

I have found that since delivery on day one, the car skips/jumps/judders when turning in any direction at slow speed on full lock in either direction. This I feel, is not safe at all.

The reason that I have written at such a senior level is because I don’t feel confident that any dealership would be able to manage this issue to a successful conclusion, they may but it would take a very long time I feel. This is a serious issue and I don’t want to be told, that it’s the cold weather, it’s the tyres etc. etc. I have not yet approached my dealer as I don’t want to “run around” and try and manage this issue with several escalations and so on lasting a period of months. This is why I have directly written to you for advice.

I would be very grateful if someone at a senior level could assist me with my journey into investigating this issue. As you can understand, I cannot be without a car and hence this issue is of the utmost importance for me.

Having read several blogs regarding this issue, I have found that I am not the only customer with the problem and that Mercedes have already recognised this as “skipping” and an “unwanted characteristic”.

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/general-discussion/201420-knocking-steering-new-glc-2.html

I am looking for the following please:

1) A quick resolution to the issue if Mercedes are already aware of a fix.

Or

2) A full refund so that I can go and purchase another car.
3) There will clearly be abnormal wear on the tyres due to this issue and I would like to know what Mercedes can do regarding this as clearly I will have to replace these tyres sooner than normal.

Gentlemen, I look forward to your reply as soon as possible.

I have copied in Mercedes customer service, David Gregory my sales executive at Mercedes Brooklands and Steve Palmer the General Manager at Mercedes Brooklands.

Thank you for your time.

Warm Regards

Rehan Siddiqui



Dear Mr Rehan,

Thank you for copying me in with your email to Senior Management of Mercedes Benz UK. I just need to advise you that Mr Whittington nor Mr West work for MBUK anymore. I am sorry you are experiencing an issue with your car which will be taken seriously by MB Brooklands. I’m sure you will understand that in order for anyone at MBUK to be involved with this case and your concerns, the car will need to be inspected before any solutions can be considered.

With this in mind I have copied the Aftersales Manager, who will arrange for you to be contacted later today and arrange an initial booking and inspect the car. Once this has happened we can propose what Mercedes Benz next step will be.

I hope you find this proposal satisfactory.

Regards
Steve Palmer
General Manager
Mercedes-Benz Brooklands


Dear Mr Siddiqui

In response to your e-mail to Mr Savage, I would like to acknowledge receipt.

We were sorry to hear that you are experiencing this issue with your GLC and can appreciate your concern.

This characteristic comes from flexibility within the tyre sidewall, the grip between the front tyres and the type of road surface being driven over. It is something which can be felt only at very low speeds, and when a certain percentage of wheel lock is engaged for turning. This is demonstratively more evident in colder temperatures due to the changes in the tyre rubber elasticity.

As per the Mercedes-Benz Digital Handbook for your car, we would always recommend the use of winter tyres for temperatures which fall below approximately +7 degrees. The recommendation given to improve this characteristic would be to change the tyres on your car to suitable tyres for the winter period.

Please be assured that this is a comfort issue and does not affect the safety or overall performance of your car.

Thank you for taking the time to make us aware, and I sincerely hope our response helps to allay your concerns.

Kind regards

Kylie Skilton
CEO Office
Mercedes-Benz Cars Limited



Dear Kylie,

Thank you very much for your prompt response with this matter.

Unfortunately I cannot accept the root cause statement you have provided for the following reasons:

· I took delivery of the car in September 2016 and this issue has been happening since then.
· This has been a very mild winter apart from the last couple of weeks with temperatures around 13 – 20 degrees. It was happening in September/October when temperatures were around 20 degrees
· The issue occurs on all types of roads, on my driveway at home, on a normal road, in my work car park, in shopping mall car parks – in fact everywhere.
· The issue is especially apparent when reversing at full lock at slow speed and the car judders/skids around 2-5 centimetres – this happens in either direction
· I have been driving since 1992 and have always had premium cars including 4x4’s and have never experienced this issue.
· I cannot agree that this is a comfort issue as the car should not slip/skip/lose grip at all at slow speed. This is also a safety issue.


Steve Palmer the general manager at Mercedes Brooklands has helped me to book the car in for inspection on Friday 13th January.

If this issue cannot be remedied then I would like to proceed with a “rejection” of the car and request a full refund of the amount I have already paid including my deposit.

However I appreciate and understand that the car does need to be inspected first and Steve has been supportive in this matter.

Once the car has been inspected and any conclusions have been drawn by the dealer, I will keep you updated.

Thank you once again for your support.


Thank You.

Warm Regards


Dear Gary and Kylie,

I hope you are well.

I would like to update you with the current situation of my car.

Firstly I am quite disappointed in the fact that the CEO office (Kylie) has not followed up with me after your last mail to me below. I would have thought that you would have mailed me back for an update given my physical circumstances.

Steve Perrett at MB World Brooklands has been wonderful, although Steve was also not able to fix the issue for me, as it quite clearly is a design/production flaw. Steve demonstrated the issue himself with a brand new unregistered car to my wife and I.

Steve had my own car examined and there is no technical fault with the car but as we all know, the issue of the crabbing and skipping is occurring with all of the production GLC/C class AMG cars.

Gary/Kylie, Last week I needed to do a u-turn and my GLC did not respond at all well at low speed as whilst I turned it continued on straight for a few inches and the same happened one recent night when turning left into my home drive way, the left turn did not execute and the car continued straight for a few inches, this was not safe at all. These incidents are on top of the daily ongoing skipping/juddering/crabbing/skidding.

As you all know from my last few mails, I am disabled having no hands and I wear two below knee artificial legs and therefore I would say that safety is of paramount concern to me. My experience is that I do not feel the car is safe and I cannot trust it. I also am not having any enjoyment at all from the vehicle due to this issue. If I had been made aware of the issue before the sale then I would have not placed the order and would have bought something else.

Kylie/Gary and Steve, as an organisation at Mercedes Benz UK, I would like to please request some additional urgent consideration for my case.

What I would like; is to formally reject the car and request my deposit is refunded and any payments I have made to date so that I can return the car and order something else.

Please could you consider my case as a priority and reply back as soon as possible so that we can start this process.


Thank You.

Warm Regards


Dear Mr Siddiqui

I am sorry you are disappointed with my previous response, this was certainly not my intention.

To offer our assurances once more, following investigation completed by Mercedes-Benz Brooklands, this is a comfort issue and does not affect the safety or overall performance of your car. That said, I do appreciate your comments and we do recognise this remains a comfort issue for some of our customers and would like to reassure you that investigations are ongoing in the UK to try and minimise this characteristic.

We are therefore unable to support your request to reject your car and refunded your deposit and any payments made at this time.

Please rest assured, as soon as we have further information regarding this characteristic, we will of course let you know.

We appreciate that you remain disappointed by this characteristic, and understand this may not be the response you were hoping for, but this is our final position regarding this matter.

Kind regards

Kylie Skilton
CEO Office
Mercedes-Benz Cars UK Limited

Auto Express are monitoring MB's progress with this issue so might be an idea to send details to him. The guy dealing with it is:

[email protected]

 

[Deleted128943]

This is purely a thought, in light if the tyre replacement not being a final repair, which is actually the best option, do we allow the crabbing to continue releasing the forces generated during full lock manoeuvres potentially wearing tyres quicker or accept the all season tyre offer and the crabbing disappears but the forces are stored within the various steering mechanisms wearing these components quicker. Is it cheaper to replace tyres or a steering rack etc. My GLC will be going before 3 years if this isn't sorted correctly...

 

[Mercedesengineer]

I know this is an old thread, but I'd just like to inform all the Mercedes owners that the cars mentioned in this thread have an inherent design flaw, which is, by current engineering standards the cause of these issues when turning on full lock. Changing the entire front suspension will NOT make the slightest difference. The problem is with the "castor angle" on the front suspension, which is set during the design and manufacturing process. For aesthetics and weight saving objectives, the castor angle is set to as near as dam it, 0 degrees (perpendicular), when 0.5 degrees (30 seconds) would be minimal. Mercedes will never admit this, but a decent alignment center should be able to measure it for you. It is not adjustable, and it cannot be fixed, so I'm afraid you will have to put up with it. My only advice, don't buy a Mercedes in future.

 

[whitenemesis]

My only advice, don't buy a Mercedes in future.

Or a Porsche, or a Lexus, or a, a, a .....

 

[MercedesDriver]

I know this is an old thread, but I'd just like to inform all the Mercedes owners that the cars mentioned in this thread have an inherent design flaw, which is, by current engineering standards the cause of these issues when turning on full lock. Changing the entire front suspension will NOT make the slightest difference. The problem is with the "castor angle" on the front suspension, which is set during the design and manufacturing process. For aesthetics and weight saving objectives, the castor angle is set to as near as dam it, 0 degrees (perpendicular), when 0.5 degrees (30 seconds) would be minimal. Mercedes will never admit this, but a decent alignment center should be able to measure it for you. It is not adjustable, and it cannot be fixed, so I'm afraid you will have to put up with it. My only advice, don't buy a Mercedes in future.

Thank you for your contribution to this thread but I find your post to be in a domain of “revenge porn” unless you can share more details about the matter supported by the evidence.
Your user name and the only post in which your advice is “don’t buy a Mercedes in future” are a bit childish. What is your suggestion? BMW? Audi? LR?