Luton Airport car park fire

[poormansporsche]

A few years back in my village we had a house fire caused by one of those spontaneous combustible beko fridge freezer jobbies. But what made it interesting was it was in a conservatory / lean to and when it went up it didn't damage the actual owners house too much just razed the house next door to the ground. Oopsy !! Wouldn't much fancy sorting that one out !!!!

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The whole bankrupt debacle of net zero and bloated government dogma is causing vehicle manufacturers into corporate suicide. Look around at the debt that VW are carrying alone against future sales to realise that fields and old stadia full of unsold electric vehicles is the reality of the situation. It just isn’t happening, and the emperor is stood there in the nude for all to see.

Is the plural of "anecdote" "data?"

For What It's Worth. I looked at buying a high spec 2018 e-Golf last year and the pricing seemed to be be just below £20k.

One year on and, to be honest, a lot more 3 or 4 year lease cars looking for new homes on the market, and the same high spec 2018 e-Golf is more like a deal at £12 -13 k

 

[Will]

Is the plural of "anecdote" "data?"

For What It's Worth. I looked at buying a high spec 2018 e-Golf last year and the pricing seemed to be be just below £20k.

One year on and, to be honest, a lot more 3 or 4 year lease cars looking for new homes on the market, and the same high spec 2018 e-Golf is more like a deal at £12 -13 k

I think most used car prices in general were artificially high a year or so back following the pandemic.

Possibly also a year or so back the energy crisis might have influenced demand for EVs when fuel costs were approaching £2/litre?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Just a quick point on the Middle East - quite a few EV's on the road in the UAE, charging points springing up all over the place.

Below is a Snip from the Dubai Roads and Transportation Authority (RTA) Website

The Board of Directors of the Roads and Transport Authority (RTA) has endorsed a plan to transform taxis in Dubai (Dubai Taxi and franchise company taxis) into 100% environmentally friendly (hybrid, electric and hydrogen-powered) by 2027. The move meets the requirements of the Dubai Supreme Council of Energy, the Green Economy drive, and the Dubai Government's strategic directions toward comprehensive environmental sustainability.

To be clear, I'm not supporting either side of the ICE /EV debate raging on here, just highlighting that the ME isn't immune to the spread of EV's.

I didn’t suggest that the Middle East is “immune to the spread of EV’s.” I just said that the “First World,” outside of Norway and the EU, is slow and reluctant to convert.

That 99.99% of cars in the Middle East aren’t EV’s, compared to a stonking 3% in the UK is neither here nor there. As long as the Oil States don’t give some kind of huge financial advantage to EV usage, they aren’t going to convert their fleet any time soon.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I think most used car prices in general were artificially high a year or so back following the pandemic.

Possibly also a year or so back the energy crisis might have influenced demand for EVs when fuel costs were approaching £2/litre?

Re the first point, I can’t see that used petrol golf’s have dropped by a third in the last 12 months. Prices have softened, for sure, but a 2018 Golf GTI, which I think was priced at the same level as the e-Golf, is still around £18k - 40% more than the e-Golf - I think

Petrol’s down just 8% on the October 2022 price of £1.62, but maybe we’re all less price shocked than we were last October.

On the other hand all new EV’s are much cheaper than they were 12 months ago, which is a good reason to dump a 3 or 4 year company lease.

 

[Will]

Re the first point, I can’t see that used petrol golf’s have dropped by a third in the last 12 months. Prices have softened, for sure, but a 2018 Golf GTI is still around £18k, I think

I think a few people on here posted to comment their surprise at how much prices had softened on their (non-EV) cars.

I wouldn’t read too much into it.

Golf GTIs have always had solid residuals

How much is a 2018 diesel Golf worth?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I think a few people on here posted to comment their surprise at how much prices had softened on their (non-EV) cars.

I wouldn’t read too much into it.

Golf GTIs have always had solid residuals

How much is a 2018 diesel Golf worth?

2018 Golf GTD: around £18k,

still 40% more than a used e-Golf which was priced at the same level, when new.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

2018 Golf GTD: around £18k,
still 40% more than a used e-Golf which was priced at the same level, when new.

Rats ! My mistake.

Golf GTD was cheaper than the e-Golf when new: £30k got you a GTD in 2018, It's lost £12k in five years.
The e-Golf was £35k in 2018, now it's £13k so it's lost £22k in five years.

(Retail to retail, so excludes bid-ask, preparation and warranty costs.. Assumed average mileage of 8k p.a., so less than 40k.)

But my point's that it's the buyer of the 5 year old car that's setting the price. Not that the first owner, who's usually the leasing or PCP company has taken more of a bath on one compared to the other.

Volkswagen Mk7 Golf GTD (2014-2020) review – is it still a proper hot hatch even though it's a diesel? | Evo

Volkswagen e-Golf review – traditional hatch to take on Tesla | Evo

 

[Connoisseur]

Caution,even fewer auto fires can be expected in future as the replacement of smelly old schneezils begins…..

GRIDSERVE | GRIDSERVE to deliver EV charging network for battery electric Heavy Goods Vehicles

Great news, folks. We’re about to embark on the biggest project of its kind that will unlock all the benefits of the GRIDSERVE Electric Highway to drivers o ...

gridserve.com

 

[Will]

Rats ! My mistake.

Golf GTD was cheaper than the e-Golf when new: £30k got you a GTD in 2018, It's lost £12k in five years.
The e-Golf was £35k in 2018, now it's £13k so it's lost £22k in five years.

(Retail to retail, so excludes bid-ask, preparation and warranty costs.. Assumed average mileage of 8k p.a., so less than 40k.)

But my point's that it's the buyer of the 5 year old car that's setting the price. Not that the first owner, who's usually the leasing or PCP company has taken more of a bath on one compared to the other.

Volkswagen Mk7 Golf GTD (2014-2020) review – is it still a proper hot hatch even though it's a diesel? | Evo

Volkswagen e-Golf review – traditional hatch to take on Tesla | Evo

Is 60% residual value better than expected after five years on a diesel hatchback though?

I’m unsure from reading your posts whether you think the e-Golf is poor value for money or that the Golf GTI/GTD is expensive?

Is the e-Golf actually a poor example of an EV? As in an adapted model of an existing car from a manufacturer that was quite slow on the uptake to EVs?

No experience of them really but they seem to have pretty poor range/performance etc maybe that’s why they’re relatively cheap?

 

[Will]

Having a very quick look at for sale prices, the e-Golf seems to fit closer to typical smaller petrol and diesel engined models from 2018 in terms of performance and price?

Seems like a relatively unpopular adapted EV hence the higher than usual depreciation. How much are 2018 Teslas relative to the new price I wonder? (I’ll let someone else do the research if they have time! )

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Is 60% residual value better than expected after five years on a diesel hatchback though?
I’m unsure from reading your posts whether you think the e-Golf is poor value for money or that the Golf GTI/GTD is expensive?
Is the e-Golf actually a poor example of an EV? As in an adapted model of an existing car from a manufacturer that was quite slow on the uptake to EVs?
No experience of them really but they seem to have pretty poor range/performance etc maybe that’s why they’re relatively cheap?

So, as I said: " Is the plural of "anecdote" "data?" For What It's Worth. I looked at buying a high spec 2018 e-Golf last year and the pricing seemed to be be just below £20k. One year on and, to be honest, a lot more 3 or 4 year lease cars looking for new homes on the market, and the same high spec 2018 e-Golf is more like a deal at £12 -13 k"

I said what I said. I think that the best that you can take from that is that the "e-Golf has taken a bath these last 12 months." (But we should wonder whether my numbers are accurate. I know that I was talking to a main dealer about sourcing a nice e-Golf at that kind of money - and he couldn't find one - but maybe they were selling for more, or less. I dunno.

I don't think my posts say whether the e-Golf is poor value or that the GTI & GTD are expensive. The market's doing what the market's doing. (And again, someone who knows what they're talking about might say my numbers are inaccurate but broadly in the right area) Have to say, I was surprised that the GTD numbers still seem to be so strong - I thought they'd taken a bit of a kicking. But maybe older diesel owners have switched to newer ones ?

There's loads of "stuff" we can throw into the mix: Tesla price dumps, new EV market entrants - especially from Korea & China, Zip cars, new VW models, diesel gate, supply chain shortages, stock levels improving at the dealerships....

Are they cheap because e-Golfs only have a range of 150 miles? Maybe, but hard to understand why when less than half the population's doing less than 150 miles a week and it's just pennies per mile to fuel one, and both insurance and RFL are significantly cheaper.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Having a very quick look at for sale prices, the e-Golf seems to fit closer to typical smaller petrol and diesel engined models from 2018 in terms of performance and price?
Seems like a relatively unpopular adapted EV hence the higher than usual depreciation. How much are 2018 Teslas relative to the new price I wonder? (I’ll let someone else do the research if they have time! )

Yes, the e-Golf has the speed of smaller engined petrols, while being originally priced at close to GTI / GTI levels. But far cheaper to run than smaller engined petrol Golfs by quite a big margin.

Relatively unpopular? Not sure about that.

Less popular than a BMW i3, but more popular than a Nissan Leaf, which was Britain's top selling EV until the Tesla 3 rocked up.
Less popular than a Merc EV ? Beyond my pay grade.

 

[Will]

Yes, the e-Golf has the speed of smaller engined petrols, while being originally priced at close to GTI / GTI levels. But far cheaper to run than smaller engined petrol Golfs by quite a big margin.

Relatively unpopular? Not sure about that.

Less popular than a BMW i3, but more popular than a Nissan Leaf, which was Britain's top selling EV until the Tesla 3 rocked up.
Less popular than a Merc EV ? Beyond my pay grade.

By relatively unpopular I mean that on Autotrader there only seems to be 8 2018 e-Golfs for sale.

Compared to regular Golfs from 2018 - 962

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

By relatively unpopular I mean that on Autotrader there only seems to be 8 2018 e-Golfs for sale.
Compared to regular Golfs from 2018 - 962

Could mean that e-Golfs sell well, and regular ones stay unsold ?
Eight e-Golfs for sale, out of 900 sold back in 2018....

Or 900: that's not many ! The Nissan Leaf sold 5,000 units in the UK in 2018....

Or 900: that's not many ! The BMW i3 sold 2500 units in the UK in 2018....

 

[Will]

Could mean that e-Golfs sell well, and regular ones stay unsold ?
Eight e-Golfs for sale, out of 900 sold back in 2018....

Or 900: that's not many ! The Nissan Leaf sold 5,000 units in the UK in 2018....

Or 900: that's not many ! The BMW i3 sold 2500 units in the UK in 2018....

No idea - the i3 and Leaf were purpose built EVs, not really sure on the e-Golf?

How does it compare to its rivals, were the BMW and Nissan EVs better/cheaper or some other reason they sold better?

How’s VWs reputation for early EVs I wonder too? Genuine questions, I have never looked into them

 

[BTB 500]

Are they cheap because e-Golfs only have a range of 150 miles? Maybe, but hard to understand why when less than half the population's doing less than 150 miles a week

150 WLTP miles when new, or 150 real-world miles as a 5 year old car?

Assuming it has a genuinely usable 150 mile range that would be perfect for daily local pottering around, but less so if the car is only used for longer runs at the weekend (both of which could average out at 150 miles a week).

 

[markjay]

150 WLTP miles when new, or 150 real-world miles as a 5 year old car?

Assuming it has a genuinely usable 150 mile range that would be perfect for daily local pottering around, but less so if the car is only used for longer runs at the weekend (both of which could average out at 150 miles a week).

My office is 7 miles away from my home. It takes me between 45 to 60 minutes to drive there (depending on the time of day - London traffic).

An EV with a real-life range of 150 miles, will be more than enough for anyone with a daily commute similar to mine, and it will only need to be charged once a week.

(Busting the "at 6 o'clock everyone gets home and charge their EVs all at the same time" myth)

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

No idea - the i3 and Leaf were purpose built EVs, not really sure on the e-Golf?
How does it compare to its rivals, were the BMW and Nissan EVs better/cheaper or some other reason they sold better?
How’s VWs reputation for early EVs I wonder too? Genuine questions, I have never looked into them

Only 8 cars on sale, out of 900 sold during the year? They must be fabulous.

Won't compare well to the Porsche Taycan, that's for sure.

I'm backing out of this Rabbit hole. My point was only that I'd notice them seemingly collapse in value by 40% over the last 12 months.

Now, about these BMW i3 Sports: will Bilsteins improve their ride ? That's the big unanswered question

 

[Darrell]

My office is 7 miles away from my home. It takes me between 45 to 60 minutes to drive there (depending on the time of day - London traffic).

That’s crazy. Where do you live and where is your office??