Mercedes reliability?!?

[Adamccc]

Surly a Battery, Glowplugs are normal item's? Ball joints and and glow plug relays are common. "not saying its right"

Yeah, I'm not opposed to the odd thing going on certain models (and obviously battery, plugs etc are all consumables you should expect to replace) but the ones I mentioned are some very serious, major components on multiple models going wrong.

MB do have their issues, but just to say that:

(a) Hydrolocking an engine by driving into a pond, and cracking alloys over potholes, are both not an 'MB issue' as such, i.e. every car is prone to these - OK, bar some SUVs (And yes there was an MB issue with some starter motor solenoids catching fire whan repeatedly trying to start a hydrolocked engine, but by this time the whole affair is well into the realm of 'operator error').

(b) It is difficult to talk about 'reliability' when buying an AMG car. These cars are packed with technology and highly stressed components. Realistically, AMG reliability should be compared with that of M3/M5 cars, or S4/S6 cars, and not with that if a Toyota Corolla.

I am not disputing that there are some known issues, and that MB can be slow the engineer-out known design or manufacturing faults, but just to say that not everything listed in the OP should be seen as part of that.

a) I don't expect you to watch the videos but he didn't drive it into a pond - he drove it in heavy rain in Pennsylvania. He even has footage of him driving it in rain (that would be no heavier than you'd find in the UK) before the car just konks out in the middle of the road and would not start again.

b) I agree, but I came from 6-7 years of Audi, having lots of RS and S products that were faultless even with driving 20k/year - about 10-15% of that being hard, track focused driving. I always through Merc were a step up in build quality and engineering but it seems they're about on par with Peugeot given my experience with them.

 

[Sonny Burnett]

Yeah, I'm not opposed to the odd thing going on certain models (and obviously battery, plugs etc are all consumables you should expect to replace) but the ones I mentioned are some very serious, major components on multiple models going wrong.



a) I don't expect you to watch the videos but he didn't drive it into a pond - he drove it in heavy rain in Pennsylvania. He even has footage of him driving it in rain (that would be no heavier than you'd find in the UK) before the car just konks out in the middle of the road and would not start again.

b) I agree, but I came from 6-7 years of Audi, having lots of RS and S products that were faultless even with driving 20k/year - about 10-15% of that being hard, track focused driving. I always through Merc were a step up in build quality and engineering but it seems they're about on par with Peugeot given my experience with them.

why are you not in the audis now mate?

 

[markjay]

Yeah, I'm not opposed to the odd thing going on certain models (and obviously battery, plugs etc are all consumables you should expect to replace) but the ones I mentioned are some very serious, major components on multiple models going wrong.

a) I don't expect you to watch the videos but he didn't drive it into a pond - he drove it in heavy rain in Pennsylvania. He even has footage of him driving it in rain (that would be no heavier than you'd find in the UK) before the car just konks out in the middle of the road and would not start again....

If he drove the car in normal rain and yet managed to get enough water into the air intake to hydrolock the engine, then somthing isn't right.

If it was a design fault then you would expect it to happen left right and centre on this model, and yet it is generally unheard off (unless you drive into a body of still water and create a big splash).

Perhaps the air filter box was loose, I don't know, but whatever was wrong with this particular car to allow the engine to take in this amount of water just by driving in normal rain, does not sound to me like an 'MB issue'.

 

[markjay]

My Kia Soul is as tough as nails and extremely reliable.

It came 7 years manufacturer's warranty (expired this year - it's a 2010 car).

The only warranty repair in 7 years was a leak from the automatic transmission sump, BUT the same dealer replaced the ATF the year before so I have no doubt that they messed-up when tightening the sump bolts.... i.e. it wasn't really a manufacturer's warranty issue (though as they fixed it for free anyway, I didn't really care).

My point is that very likely some of the 'faults' we see with cars are in fact related to how they were aerviced, and having the car serviced by a main dealer is no protection agianst poor workmanship.

 

[John]

More modern BMWs on the otherhand... Jeeeez. My 1997 M3 gets battered relentlessly round track, and has never skipped a beat. My 2011 M3 though suffered a major gearbox fail, leaking sump, leaking differential, iDrive system always stalling, random rattling... the list goes on. All before it reached 40k!

I think dual VANOS was the only weak point (and arguably the 6 speed Getrag was not as strong as the 5). I had no issues with the gearbox personally (and that 1997 M3 got driven bloody hard!) but I did have the VANOS seals replaced under warranty as a precaution as they were starting to blow.

 

[AlexM]

Double post

 

[AlexM]

I have to admit, as much as i love my E63, i find all the cabin rattles to be a major annoyance.
The top mounts and drop links were also shot at 30k millage which i think is disgusting.
Suspension components should be lasting more than 30k

Yours and mine.. my MY14 has needed two lower suspension arms due to cracked and perished rubber bushes, new arb drop links and also a top mount is now noisy. All this in less than 25k.

The cabin is also full of creaks and rattles. It is really disappointing from a quality and durability point of view. No major mechanical issues yet, but I feel it is just a matter of time..

 

[homersimpson]

In theory if you pay a high price for anything then you should expect a quality product.... But the internet is littered with stories about performance cars breaking down/catching fire, etc.. There is some mileage in the theory that any performance car is going to a high stress machine and therefore has the potential to breakdown more, so the comparison to a 'normal' car is not valid here.. its not like for like... C63 200mph, Kia Soul 110mph... I know which I'd prefer to have on my driveway.....

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Car making is a highly automated process and, as such, I wouldn't expect a great difference in quality of manufacture between the major brands.

I suppose that the quality of some of the materials used could differ but that's not what we are talking about here.

 

[FateSynchro]

Yours and mine.. my MY14 has needed two lower suspension arms due to cracked and perished rubber bushes, new arb drop links and also a top mount is now noisy. All this in less than 25k.

The cabin is also full of creaks and rattles. It is really disappointing from a quality and durability point of view. No major mechanical issues yet, but I feel it is just a matter of time..

Agreed, i am having the top mounts done under goodwill at my service on the 26th of this month.
I find it pretty upsetting that these types of components have failed in around 30k miles.
I mean in the grand scheme of things that nothing! its still a new car!

As for the mechanical side of things, i do feel she is reliable in that front, i have driven the car very hard for the last 14k miles and even managed 4 laps of the nurburgring with only my brakes causing a lasting issue (boiled fluid and cracking on the discs) but these are now about to be replaced with some 400mm jobbies.

But with all that in mind, i find the cabin squeaks and rattles to be the one that annoys me the most, i moved over to a Merc because i drove my dads W211 E63 on a 2006 with 45k and there is no noises or rattles, all the mechanical parts are perfect, no warranty repairs and all oem at 11yrs old and 45k.
Mine is 3yrs old with 15k less and im having to replace things i certainly did never expect to be doing in my ownership.

 

[Fununcle]

Agreed, i am having the top mounts done under goodwill at my service on the 26th of this month.
I find it pretty upsetting that these types of components have failed in around 30k miles.
I mean in the grand scheme of things that nothing! its still a new car!

As for the mechanical side of things, i do feel she is reliable in that front, i have driven the car very hard for the last 14k miles and even managed 4 laps of the nurburgring with only my brakes causing a lasting issue (boiled fluid and cracking on the discs) but these are now about to be replaced with some 400mm jobbies.

But with all that in mind, i find the cabin squeaks and rattles to be the one that annoys me the most, i moved over to a Merc because i drove my dads W211 E63 on a 2006 with 45k and there is no noises or rattles, all the mechanical parts are perfect, no warranty repairs and all oem at 11yrs old and 45k.
Mine is 3yrs old with 15k less and im having to replace things i certainly did never expect to be doing in my ownership.

Do you think driving it hard for 14000 miles and doing track days might have something to do with parts wearing out?

 

[RJ C63]

These cars are built to take abuse and 30k isn't that much. Imagine the MB Brooklands cars then....

 

[Aero]

When you look at the cheating on emissions, does everyone really think it stops just at emissions?? I'm cynical agreed but where there is a mindset like this then it'll spread across many departments and responsibilities. I'm afraid pressure to cut corners in other areas takes its toll somewhere...

 

[FateSynchro]

Do you think driving it hard for 14000 miles and doing track days might have something to do with parts wearing out?

When i say driving it hard, i dont mean that for 14k it got nothing but abuse and i drive it very very carefully i dont hit pot holes, i avoid drains i keep my tyre pressures in check, it gets cleaned and serviced interim very frequently.. in fact in 14k miles its had 4 oil changes.
But anyway thats beside the point, when i say hard i mean i dont hang around on a nice road so ok yeah suspension moves a bit more under conering but it should not regardless of that be wearing out, the top mount rattle was there when i got the car its just got worse over the 14k miles.... and finally on a note of driving things hard.
My RS6 was tracked frequently and thats a much heavier car.. granted it had its mechanical issues but the suspension components were fine after 80k even with the track abuse, i just changed them all when the track rods needed doing.

I think as below costing was maybe cut on the top mounts and drop links, i mean they arent very expensive and fitting them is a simple process i just think its a poor effort from a 90k car.

These cars are built to take abuse and 30k isn't that much. Imagine the MB Brooklands cars then....

Exactly, its an AMG the whole suspension setup is beefed up over a stock E class so you would expect it to last a bit better than 3yrs and 30k miles.

When you look at the cheating on emissions, does everyone really think it stops just at emissions?? I'm cynical agreed but where there is a mindset like this then it'll spread across many departments and responsibilities. I'm afraid pressure to cut corners in other areas takes its toll somewhere...

Aye thats exactly it, i mean i love the car so i'll just sort it... and im not the first to have this and i wont be the last, its not be overly complaining i just think its poor quality parts on MB's side.
The old W140 s class's are upwards of 100k and over 20yrs old still running original suspension parts without fail, but that was the most money MB spent on developing the ultimate car and it shows, granted they rust but hey you cant have it all haha!

 

[KennyN]

Yet another example of the legendary build quality , cars nose on the deck this morning thanks to a broken NSF spring , brilliant . Not bad for 38k miles.

It broke at precisely 00.35 this morning as i heard a clatter that woke me up but i figured my boy had just dropped something downstairs.



So thats tomorrow sorted, another wasted day replacing the springs

I am afraid that "they all do that / its a common problem" is wearing a bit thin now.

Kenny

 

[Adamccc]

why are you not in the audis now mate?

I had an itch for loud RWD V8 and loved the look and power of the CLS - Safe to say I'll be heading back once selling it.

 

[FateSynchro]

It broke at precisely 00.35 this morning as i heard a clatter that woke me up but i figured my boy had just dropped something downstairs.

So thats tomorrow sorted, another wasted day replacing the springs

hahaha! thats crazy, it snapped when it wasnt even moving, wow... mental, i'd just throw a set of lowering springs on if your going to the extent of replacing the spring yourself.
The rear link bars are about £80 and the front lowering springs are £210 i believe so all in all its a very cheap way to get her down 25-30mm and trust me that is more than enough.

I had an itch for loud RWD V8 and loved the look and power of the CLS - Safe to say I'll be heading back once selling it.

Same, i do like mine a lot and will probably go to a W213 E63 but i have to admit this whole new car thing does lead a lot to be desired, the RS6 was a 2010 and my GTR a 2010 (40k on the clock) both had a plethora of problems, granted the RS6 was 89k when i got rid but i replaced all sorts so i dont think any more make or car is better than others.
Personally i'd rather replace suspension bushes and put up with silly rattles in the cabin then be throwing in gearboxes and dealing with rust as well as all its common issues(GTR) or oil coolers, aux rads, struts, plastic underpanneling and finally gearbox failure on the RS6.

So bottom line, cars just arent made the way they used to be, i think thats why resale on high end cars is so low because the expense in keeping them going is crazy.
Other thing you never see really is the MB/BMW/Audi owners most of them keep themselves to themselves and never ever see a forum so these issues are probably much wider spread but they just rock back to the dealer and pay the money/warranty and its lost in the system.

With the fast paced movement of technology and the need to make things faster and cheaper quality is going to suffer... manufacturers ram as much tech into cars they can now as thats the only way to gain an edge, with emissions limits ruining the power quest its mainly focused on features and driveablity... unfortunately new tech leads to unreliablity and no long term tests.
Its a shame but genuinely the first 3yrs are a test period its probably the only reason why you get a warranty.

 

[John]

hahaha! thats crazy, it snapped when it wasnt even moving, wow... mental

I've read this many times on here previously on various cars including W211s.

I would have thought a spring would snap when the car is moving due to more forces exerted on them.

Strange.

 

[Aero]

Possibly very scary if a spring goes on the motorway, not only the obvious balance upset but the risk of a broken spring end instantly shredding a tyre at 70.

 

[Jules335]

I bought a brand new SL500 about 3 years ago and the build quality was very poor. It had numerous squeaks and rattles from day one. I sold it after a few months and haven't had another Mercedes since.

They seem to suffer from parts shortages on new car orders a lot more than other manufacturers, making for some very long lead times.