Mercedes v BMW reliability today ?

[grober]

We can all remember models from various manufacturers in the past that were pretty much bullet proof. This in the main due to their relative mechanical simplicity minimal reliance on electronics, excellent build quality and " repairability". We tend to forget that pre 1990-ish their body rust resistance was fairly abysmal and perhaps the main reason most of these great cars are no more. What is perhaps more interesting is to take one of these cars as an example - since this is a MB forum-- say a 190 and try to find a current model from any manufacturer that offers the same range of qualities today- I think you would be hard pushed- but interested to hear any suggestions. [ I had an A4 in 2003 that did 543,000 miles that never needed anything but brake pads doesn't count I'm afraid] only current production please.

 

[markjay]

Surely it takes a few years before a verdict can be passed regarding the durability and reliability of any particular model..?

 

[jaymanek]

All modern cars are made by Bosch, Valeo etc...

All modern cars suffer from the same issues of reliability of electrical components.

You will see many of the same issues across many different brands.

I blame emmisions controls for manufacturers having to come up with strange and expensive solutions to a problem dreamt up the the tree party..

Mercedes do have the advantage that most of the traditional mechanical parts are super reliable, they suffer only from the electronic issues of all modern cars.

 

[tombo5609]

I have had Mercs for the last 30 yrs but always the older reliabe version and swore by them.
I have just come off vaction and my E270CDI is stuck in first gear wirh all sorts of warning lights just because I disconnected the battery. I now use my 1995 E329 Estate until I can sort it out.

I am afraid Mercs reputation is not what it used to be.

 

[grober]

Surely it takes a few years before a verdict can be passed regarding the durability and reliability of any particular model..?

GOOD POINT but sadly it would appear that with today's models major design faults seemed to appear within the first few months let alone years of a new models life.
Perhaps I should qualify my remarks slightly- what I meant by "current models" would for example include the W204 model which had been out since 2007. It got off to a very promising start- established power plants and gearboxes a model subjected to a gruelling period of development to iron out all those teething problems. But then they couldn't resit "fiddling" with it. I know --- lets try new piezo diesel injectors--- lets put the timing gear at the rear of the engine------ lets have a 7 speed gearbox--- one turbocharger isn't enough lets have two ------ lets redesign the dashboard etc etc.
The result is a car that never remains the same for very long- Maybe that's part of the problem - no time for consolidation too many changes during a car's production life- and a short life at that??

The 190 produced from 1984 to 1993= 9 years with essentially the same M104 engine

THE W204 C class 2007-2013 = 6 years with as many engine variations you could shake a stick at??
Constant innovation v Steady development

ps still waiting for suggestion of one current model ---of any make?? with that " hewn from granite vibe" you would be willing to put money on as still be around in 10 years time

 

[Cigano]

Do any of you guys subscribe to the planed obsolescence theory ?

Or is the drop in reliability really due to cars relying more on electrics ?

Or is it a bit of both ?

 

[W4E300]

Do any of you guys subscribe to the planed obsolescence theory ?

Or is the drop in reliability really due to cars relying more on electrics ?

Or is it a bit of both ?

I've always had a theory (an educated theory as I'm a design engineer & run a manufacturing business) that cars are basically FMCG consumer goods and are obviously designed & built to a price. This price/budget would logically be based on an expectation of their 'life expectancy' and I would guess that most 'middle budget' vehicles are geared to the business rep ideal of 25-30k miles a year with full service etc. All the components in the car are engineered to that expectation, so when the heaviest use items start falling down - it's time to move it on. In my experience, the most used 'consumer operated' mechanical element in a car is the drivers window - once that goes - fix it and flog it quick.

The only time I ignored my own theory was on a bargain E-class that went on to cost me a fortune when the chassis welding rotted three weeks after the 'lifetime warranty' (actually 10 years according to MB....!) ran out.

Sent from my iPad using MBClub UK

 

[mattc]

Jay is on the money with emissions control being the driving factor

by 2020 the AVERAGE for european car should be 95 g co2/km according to the EU. its currently about 137. the fine in 2020 for EACH gram over 95 will be €95-that is concentrating a lot of minds in the car industry.

the manufacturers are trying to wring more power out of smaller displacement engines. 2 stage is now fairly common and 3 stage turbocharging is with us on the BMW. More of this to come. the technology to control this is pretty trick and when it goes wrong its expensive to fix.

 

[219]

Mercedes do have the advantage that most of the traditional mechanical parts are super reliable, they suffer only from the electronic issues of all modern cars.

Apart from injector seals on the CDI engines - I just discovered that my no 2 injector is now leaking after spending a grand getting no's 3 , 4 & 5 done six months ago .

Time to get the two remaining ones done , hopefully might get away with just the seals this time as no 1 is still not leaking and no 2 has only just started .

 

[219]

Not entirely sure I agree with that, especially if its a diesel Mazda....shocking problems with their 2.0 and 2.2 diesel engines from @ 2002 to 2009-2010. Literally a ticking time bomb of an engine with multiple faults, which is one of the reasons they are dirt cheap as they have a habit of self destructing. They also have the worst record for DPF problems.

Now, if its a petrol Mazda....I'm with you on that

Aren't the four pot engines in the current C Class Mazda designs ?

 

[219]

The 190 produced from 1984 to 1993= 9 years with essentially the same M104 engine

I'm sure that was an unintentional typo as the M104 was never fitted ( by the factory ) to any production 190 . There was the M102 four cylinder , which was also found in the W123 and W124 , and later the 2.6L M103 .

 

[219]

ps still waiting for suggestion of one current model ---of any make?? with that " hewn from granite vibe" you would be willing to put money on as still be around in 10 years time

Closest I can think of might be G Wagen , or LR Defender ( but I know that one is due for replacement ) .

 

[R W]

There are 5 to 6000 taxis on the streets of Dubai, all government owned & 95% of them are Toyota Carina’s , all petrol’s . They are kept for 3yrs & clock up 600,000kms. In this time they are very rarely any trouble. I was in one a month ago with 763,000kms on it as the new replacement was late. The car was running as sweet as a nut, despite the driver being heave footed & showing no sympathy for it.

The other 5% of their fleet are different manufacturers trying to compete with Toyota. The Dubai authorities have tested all sorts of cars over the years & nothing beats the Carina. They are currently testing Hyundai that apparently stand up to it well for 2yrs, after that they get trouble.

Cars from years ago would not come close to this sort of reliability

 

[grober]

I'm sure that was an unintentional typo as the M104 was never fitted ( by the factory ) to any production 190 . There was the M102 four cylinder , which was also found in the W123 and W124 , and later the 2.6L M103 .

YEP meant the M102.

 

[grober]

dup

 

[grober]

There are 5 to 6000 taxis on the streets of Dubai, all government owned & 95% of them are Toyota Carina’s , all petrol’s . They are kept for 3yrs & clock up 600,000kms. In this time they are very rarely any trouble. I was in one a month ago with 763,000kms on it as the new replacement was late. The car was running as sweet as a nut, despite the driver being heave footed & showing no sympathy for it.

The other 5% of their fleet are different manufacturers trying to compete with Toyota. The Dubai authorities have tested all sorts of cars over the years & nothing beats the Carina. They are currently testing Hyundai that apparently stand up to it well for 2yrs, after that they get trouble.

Cars from years ago would not come close to this sort of reliability

I am puzzled I thought they stopped making the Carina about 10 years ago? Do you mean the Toyota Avensis?

Had a quick shufty and they look like Camrys to me? = the most popular car in America with a 3.5 litre V6 Maybe a large unstressed V6 petrol has something to offer??

 

[Cigano]

There are 5 to 6000 taxis on the streets of Dubai, all government owned & 95% of them are Toyota Carina’s , all petrol’s . They are kept for 3yrs & clock up 600,000kms. In this time they are very rarely any trouble. I was in one a month ago with 763,000kms on it as the new replacement was late. The car was running as sweet as a nut, despite the driver being heave footed & showing no sympathy for it.

The other 5% of their fleet are different manufacturers trying to compete with Toyota. The Dubai authorities have tested all sorts of cars over the years & nothing beats the Carina. They are currently testing Hyundai that apparently stand up to it well for 2yrs, after that they get trouble.

Cars from years ago would not come close to this sort of reliability

Have you ever been to cyprus ? same over there , they have mid 1990s e-classes with 800k on still going like a dream .

 

[grober]

Aren't the four pot engines in the current C Class Mazda designs ?

Mitsubishi-- they were part of the DAIMLER CHRYSLER world domination plan.

 

[Lagerlout]

and in Hong Kong they run S classes into the ground, hundredes of thousands of miles and run like clockwork.

Not many people on this thread are talking about recent Mercs.

W221 S Class - Bulletproof. Built like a tank. Doors like a vault. Trust me, these are sensational vehicles.

Latest E Class - Bulletproof, I include pre and post facelift.

Latest C Class - Bulletproof.

Anything pre c. 2009 and the quality wasn't as good, but it was still on a par with anyone else.

Pre 2007 and most cars outside of an S and post c. 1995 had their issues and a deserved reputation for poor quality.

It's certainly not a brush you can tar recently, I guess bourne out by the recent quality results.

 

[Oli]

I don't think either of them are as reliable as the older ones, old Mercedes, especially the diesels are pretty much bullet proof.

Although if I had to pick a car for reliability it would probably be a 80 series LandCruiser.