Minor insurance rant!

[BTB 500]

Picking up a car this weekend for my son. He doesn't turn 17 till next month so for now it will be registered and insured in my name (with Mrs BTB as a named driver).

I took out insurance last week, with a start date of tomorrow. No NCD involved as this is an additional car. Two experienced adult drivers both with long held full UK licences and other vehicles registered/insured at the same address. It's a group 2 car, 15 years old, market value £1500. So all pretty simple and low risk. Anyway ... I started getting text messages saying they'd sent me a communication that required my urgent attention. Checked my emails (including spam) and nothing. Checked the online portal, all the usual docs there but nothing else. Rang them up and was told they wanted:

• Scans of both driving licences
• 'Driving licence summary' for both from the DVLA
• Copy of the V5C for the vehicle

A bit odd, but OK. Scanning the licences, fine. Never heard of a driving licence summary before but downloaded those as PDF files, so also fine. However I'm obviously not going to have a V5C until after I've got the car and the DVLA have posted one to me, and the insurance company's deadline for having this is Wednesday otherwise the policy may be cancelled! Couldn't get a firm answer from them on (a) whether they would actually cancel the policy or (b) whether the deadline could be moved back. Pointed out that I might have a V5C by then (depending entirely on the DVLA and the post), but didn't want to risk suddenly having no insurance if not. Not interested.

So I had no option but to cancel the policy and insure with someone else. Obviously the policy hadn't started and I was well within the 14 day 'cooling off period' but they weren't able to give a full refund (£203) - they withheld £40 as a 'new business fee' or something similar. Wouldn't budge on this despite my reason for cancellation, however they have logged a formal complaint which will be investigated.

Received this email:

Hi *******,

Thank you for choosing to insure with us.

At ******** we're passionate about delivering a great service, so would love you to tell us how we are doing. By taking part in this quick survey, you'll provide us with valuable insights on what we're doing well and what we could do better. That way we can work on the things which you really care about.

Please tell us your views.

Don't normally respond to these but I may make an exception here

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Bizarre. Can only think that it's some kind of protection for low insurance group vehicles "likely" to be used by new drivers in the future.

Silly question here: why no NCD for this as an additional / third (?) car ?

My fleet has varied over the last four decades to as many as four, and I've always agreed, over the phone, that any extra car would get the same NCD as the main car.

 

[BTB 500]

Bizarre. Can only think that it's some kind of protection for low insurance group vehicles "likely" to be used by new drivers in the future.

Silly question here: why no NCD for this as an additional / third (?) car ?

My fleet has varied over the last four decades to as many as four, and I've always agreed, over the phone, that any extra car would get the same NCD as the main car.

This puts us up to three cars plus a van, and the tractor (which is insured for road use, although this is restricted by the tax class).

Officially NCD is only earned per policy, for the declared 'main driver'. Most companies will offer an introductory discount on a new policy based on other vehicles you have, but this isn't generally actual NCD. So at the end of the first year with the new policy you'd only get written proof of 1 year's NCD. But TBH insurance companies can pretty much do what they want so some may operate differently.

I only mentioned NCD in the context of not having to upload proof of it here. Most companies now subscribe/contribute to a database run by the MIB anyway, which allows them to check NCD entitlements online.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

My fleet has varied over the last four decades to as many as four, and I've always agreed, over the phone, that any extra car would get the same NCD as the main car.

I do this too. Most insurers refer to this as NCD “mirroring”, ie they mirror though NCD of another car/policy, but actual NCD accrues from from zero at the start of the policy.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I do this too. Most insurers refer to this as NCD “mirroring”, ie they mirror though NCD of another car/policy, but actual NCD accrues from from zero at the start of the policy.

PS for those wishing to do the same, mirroring NCD with the same insurer is usually the simplest as they can immediately verify NCD history and standing as a customer - however some insurers will take on new business by mirroring NCD.

With new specialist policies the broker may ask for NCD info for other policies so that the underwriter can factor this in to deciding a premium. Once insured NCD usually makes no practical difference to premiums, ie no reduction year on year.

 

[markjay]

Do you not have the green slip from the V5C of the newly-purchased car, and if so, did the insurer refuse to accept it?

 

[BTB 500]

Do you not have the green slip from the V5C of the newly-purchased car, and if so, did the insurer refuse to accept it?

I don't have the green slip as I haven't got the car yet, but they wanted a V5C showing me as the registered keeper. Looking today the DVLA quotes 5 working days to provide this.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Officially NCD is only earned per policy, for the declared 'main driver'. Most companies will offer an introductory discount on a new policy based on other vehicles you have, but this isn't generally actual NCD. So at the end of the first year with the new policy you'd only get written proof of 1 year's NCD. But TBH insurance companies can pretty much do what they want so some may operate differently.

Absolutely. I'm just saying that the likes of Direct Line, Esure, and Aviva have always extended that NCD to the other cars as they come along.

(As I say, the fleet goes up and down depending on whim and how much wine I drink after taking a test drive, so it happens fairly regularly.)

I'm probably helped by the fact that I always take a high excess, and haven't made a claim for 33 years.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I don't have the green slip as I haven't got the car yet, but they wanted a V5C showing me as the registered keeper. Looking today the DVLA quotes 5 working days to provide this.

That's bizarre.

How can you take possession, tax, and then drive the vehicle home, if they won't insure it until a week after you've updated the ownership online?

(OK, you can drive the new motor on trade plates, using other insurance, but the point remains for most private owners)

 

[BTB 500]

How can you take possession, tax, and then drive the vehicle home, if they won't insure it until a week after you've updated the ownership online?

Taxing it and driving it home was going to be fine - it's just that they were going to cancel the policy a couple of days later if I hadn't received the V5C from the DVLA by then.

My theory is that the deadline was driven by the date you took the policy out rather than when it actually started. So if you left it to the last minute to insure the car (typically more expensive) you'd be OK. But who knows

They lost a customer, and the replacement policy I took out was almost exactly the same price

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Taxing it and driving it home was going to be fine - it's just that they were going to cancel the policy a couple of days later if I hadn't received the V5C from the DVLA by then.

My theory is that the deadline was driven by the date you took the policy out rather than when it actually started. So if you left it to the last minute to insure the car (typically more expensive) you'd be OK. But who knows

They lost a customer, and the replacement policy I took out was almost exactly the same price

Gotcha. Mea culpa - didn't remember your comment properly. A stupid, blunt instrument threat by the insurer that deserves what they got.

Maybe it's something to do with scallies applying for insurance with discount, and then not following through on the evidence?

 

[Doodle]

Wouldn't budge on this despite my reason for cancellation, however they have logged a formal complaint which will be investigated.

They've unreasonably changed the terms of the contract after the event, and are then arbitrarily withholding funds when those terms can't be met. Bunch of chancers.

I'm sure they'll cough up "as a goodwill offer", but if not mentioning an ombudsman complaint should get things moving suitably. It'll cost them several hundred pounds for the FO to hear the case

 

[BIGDOG]

Sounds like Hastings.

 

[BTB 500]

Sounds like Hastings.

No, but another well known company. I'm waiting to see if I get my £40 back before mentioning the name.

 

[BTB 500]

Got the email confirmation today ... up to 2 weeks to get the V5C, so Wednesday would have been a bit tight.

DVLA have been notified electronically that you are now the new keeper of vehicle registration number: **** ***

The online Transaction ID is *************************

You should receive your new V5C registration certificate (logbook) within 2 weeks

Anyway, it's now registered/taxed/insured and ready to pick up first thing tomorrow

 

[Pontoneer]

Picking up a car this weekend for my son. He doesn't turn 17 till next month so for now it will be registered and insured in my name (with Mrs BTB as a named driver).

I took out insurance last week, with a start date of tomorrow. No NCD involved as this is an additional car. Two experienced adult drivers both with long held full UK licences and other vehicles registered/insured at the same address. It's a group 2 car, 15 years old, market value £1500. So all pretty simple and low risk. Anyway ... I started getting text messages saying they'd sent me a communication that required my urgent attention. Checked my emails (including spam) and nothing. Checked the online portal, all the usual docs there but nothing else. Rang them up and was told they wanted:

• Scans of both driving licences
• 'Driving licence summary' for both from the DVLA
• Copy of the V5C for the vehicle

A bit odd, but OK. Scanning the licences, fine. Never heard of a driving licence summary before but downloaded those as PDF files, so also fine. However I'm obviously not going to have a V5C until after I've got the car and the DVLA have posted one to me, and the insurance company's deadline for having this is Wednesday otherwise the policy may be cancelled! Couldn't get a firm answer from them on (a) whether they would actually cancel the policy or (b) whether the deadline could be moved back. Pointed out that I might have a V5C by then (depending entirely on the DVLA and the post), but didn't want to risk suddenly having no insurance if not. Not interested.

So I had no option but to cancel the policy and insure with someone else. Obviously the policy hadn't started and I was well within the 14 day 'cooling off period' but they weren't able to give a full refund (£203) - they withheld £40 as a 'new business fee' or something similar. Wouldn't budge on this despite my reason for cancellation, however they have logged a formal complaint which will be investigated.

Received this email:



Don't normally respond to these but I may make an exception here

Is/was this car insured with the same company as your several other vehicles ?

If so , I'd have been tempted to tell them you'd be taking all your business elsewhere ?

Back in 1978 , when I was driving what was still registered as my dad's car ( although it had effectively been given to me ) and still insured with him ; I had a non-fault crash when an uninsured driver , who was also drunk , no licence , had allegedly stolen his step father's car which was also untaxed and no MOT , came around a bend on the wrong side of the road and hit me head on , writing off the W115 I was in , my dad was left having to claim and they were going to cancel the NCD back to nothing . However my dad had four or five vehicles at home insured with them , plus his haulage fleet , about 50 trucks , vans and plant , so when he threatened to take all that business elsewhere , they very quickly rolled over .

 

[BTB 500]

So ... update today, my complaint about the £40 'new business charge' not being refunded has been rejected. I've given them to the end of this week to reconsider, after which I'll refer it to the Ombudsman. I have copies of the emails and chat transcript stating they would cancel the policy themselves if I didn't provide the V5C by midnight on Wednesday.

 

[BTB 500]

Is/was this car insured with the same company as your several other vehicles ?

Unfortunately not.

 

[Pontoneer]

They've unreasonably changed the terms of the contract after the event, and are then arbitrarily withholding funds when those terms can't be met. Bunch of chancers.

I'm sure they'll cough up "as a goodwill offer", but if not mentioning an ombudsman complaint should get things moving suitably. It'll cost them several hundred pounds for the FO to hear the case

I'd be inclined to phone my bank or card provider and ask for a chargeback , explaining the circumstances . I've only ever done it a couple of times ,but these companies don't tend to argue with banks .

 

[Lauraevesummers86]

I'd be inclined to phone my bank or card provider and ask for a chargeback , explaining the circumstances . I've only ever done it a couple of times ,but these companies don't tend to argue with banks .

I had a very similar experience with Admiral, but did this with my bank and it never got questioned. I assume they just take the risk in knowing that not many people will request for it back