ML420 - Nice but Leggy...

[E55BOF]

What think you to this, gentlemen?

Mercedes ML420 SE - Full Leather, cool + heat memory seats. Airmatic, | eBay

I've actually been looking out for a nice W164 ML500 with the M113 engine, in a colour scheme I like. However, the road tests seem to think the 420 diesel is as good as, if not better than, the ML500.

I like the colour scheme a lot, and it has all the (not many) toys on my must-have list. However, there's a gap of nearly 40K miles in the service history, and it's done rather a lot of miles. The MoT history suggests the Airmatic has been playing up recently, too.

Does anybody have any information on how reliable the OM629 V8 diesel is? I can't find much on the internet.

 

[Abb]

@SPX should be able to help out here! Maybe mistaken, but isn't this one of your favs Lee, the ML W164 in 420 guise? (when it comes to that model)

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I loved my ML420 and it would have gone down as being one of my top ten but for the gearbox - you could poach an egg in the time delay between you putting your foot down and the car actually moving!

if you can get past that; they’re a great vehicle and, with my sensible hat on, not only make the ‘500 a bit redundant but (with the Brabus chip more so) I’d go as far as to say the torque this thing produces gives the ‘63 a run for its money too!

 

[E55BOF]

Hmmmmmmm...

I do like great gobs of low-down torque, and if this is correct:




It makes for very interesting viewing....

The seller reckons it's the best diesel MB ever made; does anybody have a view on the reliability?

I wonder if a Sprint Booster-type tuning box would sharpen up the throttle response?

I've seen mention of a common gearbox problem; does anyone know what this might be?

I'm tempted; I'm definitely tempted...

 

[Deleted member 37751]

The seller reckons it's the best diesel MB ever made

IMO it is...it’s just let down by that gearbox which is probably accentuated by the sheer torque of the thing..

Also meant to mention that, on the continent, they actually put it in a W211...! An estate E420 CDI would be my favourite ever car!

 

[E55BOF]

I'm a bit worried about the reliability, though; if it was an M113 I wouldn't be, and if it was half the price I'd take a punt anyway, but as it is, I'm not sure.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Outside of the proverbial W164 issues, I don’t recall much about “common faults” on the 420, maybe @Alex can shed a bit more light.

I’d definitely recommend test driving one though, as I said, if you can get past the gearbox, it’s a great lump. The midrange torque really is something to be experienced.

 

[E55BOF]

What are the proverbial W164 issues? I've seen mention of a 'common fault' with the gearbox on MLs in the past week or so; there was one on eBay where the seller had just had it fixed at a cost of £600, but I can't find the ad.

I reckon I could live with the gearbox; I'd look on it as turbo lag, but with a different cause. Did you investigate to see whether anything could be done about it?

It does tick an awful lot of boxes for me. If I were to go and see it, based on past form I'd come away in it...

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Lovely car and colour but the service history means that it’s a bit of a gamble.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

What are the proverbial W164 issues?

Bit rusty now but from memory -
Valve body on the gearbox
Tailgate issues (water ingress & auto function playing up iirc)
Parking sensors seem to fail more than you’d expect
Folding wing mirror failure

I reckon I could live with the gearbox; I'd look on it as turbo lag, but with a different cause. Did you investigate to see whether anything could be done about it?

No, I drive a couple of other Mercedes with the 7G box around that time as an experiment and they were very similar in nature so just accepted it.
The gap was huge though and made pulling out at busy junctions a lottery; there were plenty of close your eyes and say a Hail Mary moments!

 

[Nat]

Totally agree with the "wait" before pulling away. I've got the 500 Sport version and overall it's a great car to drive. The other thing I've noticed is the time it takes to slow down. I can do 50mph in this and it'll take ages to slow down with little to no engine braking.

In saying that they're a great place to be in and seem to be very good value for money. Especially compared to my mates RR of the same year which has some go to it been the petrol version but he's literally thrown his wallet at it on numerous occasions making my ML look ultra reliable and cheap to run. They make for good tow cars as well. I could easily pull our last caravan without really noticing it was on there. Filling the tank up for the 1st time was interesting as well. I got up to £90 and stopped and was looking for leaks underneath until I realised the tank is massive and went on to £100+ to fill it.

I was keeping an eye on this one but unsure if I'd want a derv even if it would out pace my petrol version - 56 MERCEDES-BENZ ML420 4.0 V8 CDI SPORT - AMG KIT, MEGA SPEC, STUNNING RARE CAR | eBay

I like the one in E55 BOF's link. An unusual but very nice colour that suits it well. Although it'd look better with tints and a sand/orangey colour leather. Just check for knocks on the front as the airmatic struts can do that as I've got that on mine so one of them will need replacing. I also noticed the inside of the front tyres wear more than the rest of the tyre yet the tracking is spot on.

It'd be interesting to know the mpg difference between the 500 and the 420. I can't see the 420 been much different to the 500 around town but better than the 500 on a run. The most I've had out of mine was 29mpg while with my wife doing her usual commute of 3 miles each way shows an average of 15mpg. Her CLK showed 19 on average where a manual SLK200 was mid 20's all on the same run.

 

[Alex]

Outside of the proverbial W164 issues, I don’t recall much about “common faults” on the 420, maybe @Alex can shed a bit more light.

I’d definitely recommend test driving one though, as I said, if you can get past the gearbox, it’s a great lump. The midrange torque really is something to be experienced.

Engine and gearbox wise they are sound and lovely to drive. Our had a couple of issues - air suspension compressor diying and some tailgate related faults which were sorted by relocating the electric ram out of the boot tub in the facelift version. I've got only good memories of our ML420 all the way to the moment it was t-boned by an artic, thus saving yours trully life. Great car to own and drive, especially after a tuning box.

 

[E55BOF]

Thanks guys. Lee, interesting point about the gearbox lag; I've had several 7G boxes of that sort of age, and never noticed anything untoward. As with the 5G box, there's that slight dead space before the pedal takes effect, but I've always thought it was a Mercedes trait, and I can live with it. It's only noticeable when opening the throttle gently from a standing start, and I suppose I'm so used to it I compensate automatically.

If the tailgate gave trouble, I could always go back to basics and open it manually until I got it fixed. I agree on the leather colour, but it is what it is. I'm not sure tints would suit it; they suit my silver W163 , I think, but on dark colours, I'm not keen.

I wouldn't have wanted that black one; wrong colour, chavved up, and effectively no service history - 89K miles and only two stamps...

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Again, it’s a while ago so my memory is a bit vivid, but I’m sure I just adapted my driving to reduce the gearbox “pause” to the point I’d always keep the wheels moving unless it was a Stop junction or similar.

Mine was the Sport with the AMG kit but I always felt the SE interior both looked better and felt better (the SE is leather interior, the Sport plastic Artico)

Another thing I’ve just remembered, make sure that, if you do go for a W164, you get one with Airmatic; I don’t think I’ve ever driven a vehicle that has benefitted so greatly from that option as the W164 - the 350 CDI I had felt like a big boat without it whereas the 420 CDI felt a lot “tighter” yet smooth. Such is the difference it’s quite hard to describe actually!

 

[Will]

It depends on what you’re looking for, but I had a tough time finding a GL in decent condition. I looked at some of the earlier (164 chassis) ones and most were pretty ropey at this sort of age. Personally if I was buying an ML to keep I’d try and find a nicer one with lower mileage and decent service history

But if you’re feeling lucky and fancy a go in one then fingers crossed, it could be okay.

I looked at a GL420 CDI that the (2nd owner) had owned for several years and he couldn’t recommend the MB extended warranty enough. As he spoke to me of all the expensive repairs that it had covered I was convinced that these can be quite expensive cars to repair and maintain if you’re unlucky - air suspension, electronics etc.

IMHO I’d keep the 163 you have as a runaround/dog wagen or spend more out for a nicer 164 or if you’re keen on the newer shape perhaps a 166 with warranty?

As the saying goes - ‘nothing as expensive as a cheap Mercedes-Benz’

 

[E55BOF]

According to the current owner, the first owner had it to 135K miles and late 2017, and he makes the point that it is unlikely that he would just have stopped having it serviced during that time, but must have gone outside the dealer network. That makes sense, but there are no invoices to prove it.

The air suspension has already begun to play up, but it has had a new compressor, and probably two new struts, since 2014, so there's only two struts to go...

I don't mind some mechanical repairs, though it would be taking a chance, but my main concern is rust. I'd have to buy it sight unseen, too; the logistics of going to see it are just too difficult in the short term.

There are a few others around, all lower mileage, but they're all silver or black, and I don't really want either colour; I like the colour scheme on that one a lot, it has a very good specification, and I could wait quite a while before another one as appealing comes up for sale. I'm not known for my patience...

I'll sleep on it.

 

[ab9758]

One dilemma is it'll be an expensive visit to come for coffee with me in Central London, and I hope you don't have family in Bristol.
Or that you would ever hope to resell it to residents of these zones.
Oh - and is it next year everyone inside the North Circular and soon after everyone inside the M25?
Wonder why no one is really addressing this and diesel 2nd hand owners realise that soon they won't be able to give their cars away.
I'll keep hold of my ML500 or buy another ML63.

 

[ab9758]

Oh dear-
HSV378Green MERCEDES ML420 SE CDI 4-MATIC A
ULEZ charge applies to this vehicle
Daily charge: £12.50

Why: This could be because the vehicle’s details as registered with us show it doesn’t meet the required ULEZ standards OR it's registered outside the UK and we don't hold any details for it.

If you believe your vehicle meets the standards, you will need to register it with us.

How you register your vehicle will depend on its country of registration:

• Non-UK registered vehicles must be registered through our partner, EPCplc. You will be taken to their website
• UK-registered vehicles can be registered directly with us

Until we confirm that your vehicle meets the emissions standards, you need to pay the daily ULEZ charge whenever you drive within the zone.

The checker ONLY checks the emissions standard of the vehicle. To check if a discount or exemption applies to your vehicle - and whether you need to pay the charge - go to Pay to drive in London.

 

[T5R+]

Do not want to be a doom monger but with a 10+ year old car - take your chances to a certain degree. Even with FMBSH and still things will go wrong.

The 420/450 will exhibit common W164 faults. People have already mentioned these. Suspect that the air suspension would be the most expensive.

As a car expect 20 - 30MPG, latter figure on a run. Whilst this MPG is not quite ML63 territory, but if you cover very low miles, then the petrol would be my choice. Having said that the V8 Diesel does get a real shuffle on when rolling and is surprising quick. Add a Brabus chip and it is a little quicker and even torquier. Funnily enough they sound great - chap walked past me then looked back and smiled with the comment "that's why it sounds so good, it is a V8" - naturally, you never appreciate it from within the car. The speed, interior, gadgets, bling and quality is great with my only gripe being (in addition to slow gearbox) that the front is very heavy if on country roads.

Couple of things to remember

• do not let the wife see the RFL reminder
• expect to flash/wave to other 420 drivers
• shocked expressions of the lane 3 "german brigade" when they move over
• they are not cheap to run

 

[E55BOF]

ULEZ or any other city's congestion charge is irrelevant; I'd rarely if ever need to pay it, and I live outside the M25 too...
I'm a widower, so the RFL is not a problem.

I'll have a talk with the owner, as opposed to exchanging emails, and see what I think. It's still quite a lot of miles on it, and if the engine was an M113, I'd not worry about that, but there's a lot less information on the OM628. I'll take my chances on the airmatic if I decide to buy it, but I'm in two minds about it still.