More performance upgrade questions - C124

[mercboiuk]

Good evening everyone.

As some of you may know from a recent thread, I'm considering a Twin Turbo project for my E320 Coupe.
As mentioned in that thread, I wish to do everything properly and to me that means sorting out braking and suspension first.
It also means, if it makes a difference, I'd like to upgrade other parts of the running gear.

I have previously asked about C36 AMG items fitting my coupe, receiving a resounding "No" "not worth it" response.


And so, this brings me to my following similar questions, but this time referring to items from an E36 AMG estate with 230,000 kms on the clock.


I've seen driveshafts, propshaft, 3.06 differential with ASR, and what the seller refers to as "AMG wheel arches" hinting they are factory modified for larger wheels.

Also, the same seller has an E36 rear brake setup along with an SL500 front brake set up for sale.


In the same vein as my older C36 item thread, is it worth purchasing, restoring if necessary, and installing all of the above?


The front brakes I'm pretty much going to go for.
The rear brakes are a possible if it's worth it.

But are the prop, drive shaft and diff upgrades worth it and more importantly will they fit my Coupe?

Advice is always welcome!
Many thanks in advance,

Darren

 

[kth286]

the prop shaft will be too long for the shorter coupe chassis.

 

[mercboiuk]

I did suspect that would be the case, so thank you for confirming

Darren

 

[d w124]

Darren,I don`t know how correct I am with this but I think the E36 came with the same brakes as the 320
As for the ASR diff I wouldn`t bother

 

[carat 3.6]

Darren,I don`t know how correct I am with this but I think the E36 came with the same brakes as the 320
As for the ASR diff I wouldn`t bother

Yep, they are the same as the 320.

A good upgrade is to use the front struts, hubs, discs, calipers, ect, from the sl500 r129. These will fit the w124 fairly easily, and if you use the r129 top mounts it will lower the front of the car by around 20mm without upsetting anything.

At the back end, the lsd diff from a 190 2.3 16v will bolt straight in if you swap the rear covers over. The diffs from an asd or 4matic w124 will also fit, but you need to use the matching half shafts. Any of the above three will give you a 30% lockup in the diff.

If you want to get creative, you could retrofit an asd control system which can give up to 100% lock up, but this only works below 19mph. Or do as I do, and control it manualy with a switch on the dashboard.

The rear brakes will be fine as they are, they dont normaly get use'ed alot.

You could also change the suspension bushes for polyuthrane items from superflex ect.

 

[kth286]

Yep, they are the same as the 320.

A good upgrade is to use the front struts, hubs, discs, calipers, ect, from the sl500 r129. These will fit the w124 fairly easily, and if you use the r129 top mounts it will lower the front of the car by around 20mm without upsetting anything.

How will using the 129 top mounts lower the car by around 20mm ?

 

[carat 3.6]

How will using the 129 top mounts lower the car by around 20mm ?

IIRC they are a slightly different design, the shock sit's higher inside them.

I forgot to say you will need the r129 springs in my previous post, if you fit all the r129 parts with standard w124 top mounts the shocks will be slightly too compressed.

 

[BillyW124]

interesting R129 top mount question....

I created a thread on this last year and we didnt really come to a conclusion!

 

[mercboiuk]

Yep, they are the same as the 320.

A good upgrade is to use the front struts, hubs, discs, calipers, ect, from the sl500 r129. These will fit the w124 fairly easily, and if you use the r129 top mounts it will lower the front of the car by around 20mm without upsetting anything.

At the back end, the lsd diff from a 190 2.3 16v will bolt straight in if you swap the rear covers over. The diffs from an asd or 4matic w124 will also fit, but you need to use the matching half shafts. Any of the above three will give you a 30% lockup in the diff.

If you want to get creative, you could retrofit an asd control system which can give up to 100% lock up, but this only works below 19mph. Or do as I do, and control it manualy with a switch on the dashboard.

The rear brakes will be fine as they are, they dont normaly get use'ed alot.

You could also change the suspension bushes for polyuthrane items from superflex ect.

Many thanks for information guys

RE: 129 upgrades.
Except for lowering the car, could please explain what are the advantages of having those upgrades?
I believed the hubs were the same as the 124, so the brakes would bolt on.
The offer is only for calipers, discs and pads.
I would upgrade the lines to some steel braided items.

RE: Diff.
Just to clairfy in my own mind....
A 2.3-16 diff will bolt in, giving 30% lock up at whatever speed required.
ASD and 4matic, again 30% to whatever speed. What are half shafts, though? Are these the drive shafts?
By ASD retrofit, you mean finding all the electric items required to fit my existing diff? However this would only give 100% up to 19mph? Does it offer any form of lock beyond 19mph?

Which of the above would be covered by the E36 diff with ASD? Would the 3.06 ratio be of any benefit?

I'm learning so be kind

The brakes I certainly won't bother with. Maybe just upgrade discs and pads when the time comes to change.

I've looked into polybushes for my Audi, but upon Googling, I couldn't find any manufacturer who lists 124 polybushes?

Many thanks again.
Darren

 

[mercboiuk]

As for the ASR diff I wouldn`t bother

Would say this because of the 19mph limit?

I'm after some sort of lock.
At present the 320 can over power the rear grip on damp surfaces.

With at least half as much power again, my fear is that traction would be easily lost in the dry.
So a form of an LSD would be good, and I currently believe sticking with a Mercedes/AMG factory item would be the easiest way to go - if it's not the easiest or best way, I' open to opinions and suggestions

Darren

 

[d w124]

And lsd is much better option Darren,and you could find it here without having to buy from that German chap

 

[kth286]

IIRC they are a slightly different design, the shock sit's higher inside them.

I forgot to say you will need the r129 springs in my previous post, if you fit all the r129 parts with standard w124 top mounts the shocks will be slightly too compressed.

So just fitting 129 top mounts will not lower spring suspension.

 

[RBYCC]

I'm after some sort of lock.
At present the 320 can over power the rear grip on damp surfaces.

With at least half as much power again, my fear is that traction would be easily lost in the dry.
So a form of an LSD would be good, and I currently believe sticking with a Mercedes/AMG factory item would be the easiest way to go - if it's not the easiest or best way, I' open to opinions and suggestions

Darren

Darren

What tires are you running...?

You should not be losing traction wet or dry, regardless of power, with the proper tread pattern and compound tire, unless you tend towards a very heavy pedal upon acceleration.

The differential be it open or LSD is only as good transfering power as are the tires...

Ed A.

 

[carat 3.6]

So just fitting 129 top mounts will not lower spring suspension.

No, but they will reposition the shocks to the correct height if you lower the front of the car with the r129 parts.

Sorry if my earlier post was misleading.

 

[carat 3.6]

Darren

What tires are you running...?

You should not be losing traction wet or dry, regardless of power, with the proper tread pattern and compound tire, unless you tend towards a very heavy pedal upon acceleration.

The differential be it open or LSD is only as good transfering power as are the tires...

Ed A.

Hows the traction in the twin turbo Ed?

 

[mercboiuk]

Darren

What tires are you running...?

You should not be losing traction wet or dry, regardless of power, with the proper tread pattern and compound tire, unless you tend towards a very heavy pedal upon acceleration.

The differential be it open or LSD is only as good transfering power as are the tires...

Ed A.

Currently I have Continentals on the rear.
However at the next change, I shall be opting for Michelin Pilot Sports. After switching to those on my Audi, they were a revelation.
Not the cheapest, but by far the best I've tried.

I do tend to have a heavier foot, too

I know you have a slightly different set up, being based on a 300, but what kind of diff do you have in your TT?

Darren

 

[mercboiuk]

No, but they will reposition the shocks to the correct height if you lower the front of the car with the r129 parts.

Sorry if my earlier post was misleading.

Assuming I can find the parts, would this be worth it as I will be sorting out the suspension in due course?

It has already been lowered by a previous owner, but I'm not sure by how much.

Darren

 

[RBYCC]

Hows the traction in the twin turbo Ed?

Depends on the time of year... was running a summer compound Falken FK-452 which loses a bit of grip below 5-6 deg C.

Still never had any problem with normal driving, but a cold day at the drag strip and the tires would smoke for almost an 1/8 mile before gaining traction...

The new setup will be very sticky Kuhmo Ecsta XS, still biased toward warmer temps...

To give you an example..My CLK Black came with Pirelli P-zero race Corsa's...each wheel had a different tire tread pattern. Could never get them hot enough on the street, so even a partial throttle acceleration would kick the traction limit in...rear would break loose at an 80mph "kickdown" to pass...got a bit scary !!

Just installed Conti Extreme Contact DWS All Season tires which is what the USA AMG driving school uses on the CLK Black...

Great street compromise and makes the car more "streetable" !!!

 

[carat 3.6]

RE: Diff.
Just to clairfy in my own mind....
A 2.3-16 diff will bolt in, giving 30% lock up at whatever speed required.
ASD and 4matic, again 30% to whatever speed. What are half shafts, though? Are these the drive shafts?
By ASD retrofit, you mean finding all the electric items required to fit my existing diff? However this would only give 100% up to 19mph? Does it offer any form of lock beyond 19mph?


Which of the above would be covered by the E36 diff with ASD? Would the 3.06 ratio be of any benefit?


I've looked into polybushes for my Audi, but upon Googling, I couldn't find any manufacturer who lists 124 polybushes?

Many thanks again.
Darren

Yes the 190 2.3 16v lsd diff will bolt into your car if you use the w124 rear cover from your old diff, it also bolts to the w124 driveshafts in your car, and will give a 30% lock at any speed.

The asd or 4matic diffs (which are the same units, just differing names) will also give a 30% lock at any speed, if used on their own. (By on their own, I mean without the rest of the asd or 4 matic system.) If you want to fit the complete asd system from a donor car, you will get a varying amount of lock from 30% up to 100% controled from the asd system ecu. The asd system is only operational up to 19mph, after that speed the diff reverts to a 30% lock up.

However, you can do as I do and turn the asd system on manualy. On my w124 the asd system is controled by an on/off switch, so in the off position I have 30% lockup, and in the on position I have 100% lockup. That way I can have a fully locked diff at any speed I like, or at any roundabout I like.

The asd or 4matic diffs will need their matching driveshafts if you want to fit either into your car.

As for the e36 diff, is it asd or asr? If it is asd then grab the diff and halfshafts to give you a 30% lsd. Or you could retro fit the entire system to your car if it is working. Do you know what your diff ratio is now?

I'm fairly sure one of the companys do a polybush kit for the w124, but you have to ask for it as they dont advertise every kit they do.

 

[RBYCC]

Currently I have Continentals on the rear.
However at the next change, I shall be opting for Michelin Pilot Sports. After switching to those on my Audi, they were a revelation.
Not the cheapest, but by far the best I've tried.

I do tend to have a heavier foot, too

I know you have a slightly different set up, being based on a 300, but what kind of diff do you have in your TT?

Darren

Darren

I run the stock 3.07 diff that the car was delivered with..

I try to stay within the limits of the platform design so as not to get into anything custom.

Suspension tweaking that allows weight transfer keeps both rear tires gripping...

Always remain conservative so things don't break...not a "boy racer"
The stock drive line can easily handle 300+ RWP...

The Mich PS's are a great tire as are the Conti Extreme contact....

As I just posted a summer compound which most performance tires are will not be that great in cold weather...just did Conti EC DWS all seasons on my CLK Black

Ed A.