More performance upgrade questions - C124

[carat 3.6]

Assuming I can find the parts, would this be worth it as I will be sorting out the suspension in due course?

It has already been lowered by a previous owner, but I'm not sure by how much.

Darren

If it has been fitted with matched springs and shocks you dont need to worry about the top mounts. Best to find out what the previous owner has fitted.

 

[carat 3.6]

Darren

I run the stock 3.07 diff that the car was delivered with..

I try to stay within the limits of the platform design so as not to get into anything custom.

Suspension tweaking that allows weight transfer keeps both rear tires gripping...

Always remain conservative so things don't break...not a "boy racer"
The stock drive line can easily handle 300+ RWP...

The Mich PS's are a great tire as are the Conti Extreme contact....

As I just posted a summer compound which most performance tires are will not be that great in cold weather...just did Conti EC DWS all seasons on my CLK Black

Ed A.

Ed, is yours just a standard open diff or asd/lsd?

 

[RBYCC]

Ed, is yours just a standard open diff or asd/lsd?

Standard open 3.07 as that was the only diff available in the 1988 C124.
Suspension and tires are as important if not more important then the diff in getting the power to the ground.
Car has to be balanced corner to corner to get adequate weight distribution and transfer under acceleration, braking, cornering etc...

You can see in the below pix the launch attitude along with the open diff leaving equal rubber on the tarmac under a torque loaded launch.

What's interesting is that Mercs typically have no more then a 50%-60% lock ( new C63 BS ) which is a handling compromise. BMW "M" cars have a 100% capability under certain conditions. So what's best...I prefer 100% like a Detroit Locker in a very high torque car.

The open diff transfers the same amount of torque to each wheel which is what a 100% lock does...only "big" difference open is great if you have grip, not good if you don't have traction.

Does an ASD or LSD have advantages over an open diff...for sure !!!
Is it worth changing out...depends on what the driver/owner wants ...
For me no need to as I'm satisfied with my suspension and how I drive and the weather/roads I have in my area...

 

[kth286]

In little ole UK with its multitude of small badly maintained roads and
difficult junctions often with 'off beat' camber situations, coupled to constantly damp surfaces; rear wheel slip is a real problem with E320 124 cars.

Peak torque at a fairly low (for petrol engine) 3750 revs, coupled with the lower standard diff ratio found on Euro models compared with the States, contributes to the problem.

The UK diff is a standard 3.06:1 ratio coupled to the 4 speed auto gearbox,
whereas in the States you have fitted as standard the 2.65:1 ratio coupled to the 4 speed auto box.

So, whilst we have better acceleration, you guys have better gas mileage.

Incidentally the 320 cars use the bigger pumpkin sized diff with higher oil capacity than 300 diff, which is the small size.

 

[mercboiuk]

Yes the 190 2.3 16v lsd diff will bolt into your car if you use the w124 rear cover from your old diff, it also bolts to the w124 driveshafts in your car, and will give a 30% lock at any speed.

The asd or 4matic diffs (which are the same units, just differing names) will also give a 30% lock at any speed, if used on their own. (By on their own, I mean without the rest of the asd or 4 matic system.) If you want to fit the complete asd system from a donor car, you will get a varying amount of lock from 30% up to 100% controled from the asd system ecu. The asd system is only operational up to 19mph, after that speed the diff reverts to a 30% lock up.

However, you can do as I do and turn the asd system on manualy. On my w124 the asd system is controled by an on/off switch, so in the off position I have 30% lockup, and in the on position I have 100% lockup. That way I can have a fully locked diff at any speed I like, or at any roundabout I like.

The asd or 4matic diffs will need their matching driveshafts if you want to fit either into your car.

As for the e36 diff, is it asd or asr? If it is asd then grab the diff and halfshafts to give you a 30% lsd. Or you could retro fit the entire system to your car if it is working. Do you know what your diff ratio is now?

I'm fairly sure one of the companys do a polybush kit for the w124, but you have to ask for it as they dont advertise every kit they do.

Thank you for the clarifications

The E36 diff has ASR.
Since your post, a bit of Googling has revealed the E320 has a 3.07 ratio.
Considering this, and the fact I have since heard there is alot of electrical work required to get ASR fitted to my car, I don't think the E36 diff will be the way to go. Shame
However, the 2.3-16 or 4matic route is something I shall be looking in to, to aid with traction.
I am hopeful this route, together with the Mich PS, will be of great benefit.

As for the polybush, I shall make some enquiries.

Thank you again
Darren

 

[d w124]

Darren:That E36 does but not all of them did,it was an optional extra.The only w124 that came with ASR as standard is the 500e

 

[mercboiuk]

If it has been fitted with matched springs and shocks you dont need to worry about the top mounts. Best to find out what the previous owner has fitted.

In response to this added point....

My suspension has been a point since not long after I purchased the car.
I am owner number 6, so I have no idea which previous owner lowered the car.
All I know is that whoever did it didn't have much of a clue as to what they were doing, as 4 knackered stock shock absorbers can testify - I have replaced them with Bilstein MB Sportline shocks.
Not my Indy, nor I, know the maker, nor do we know by how much car has been lowered.

Considering the above (lack of) knowledge, my plan is replace all suspension with new. I guess this would also be the time to polybush

Darren

 

[mercboiuk]

Darren:That E36 does but not all of them did,it was an optional extra.The only w124 that came with ASR as standard is the 500e

I wasn't aware of this.
I was curious about this diff because the German chap is breaking a car, so there would be potential for a job lot.

I shall continue to look, but if the aforementioned 4matic and 2.3-16 diffs offer just as good, if not better, traction then that would be the way to go.

Incidentally, does anyone know the diff ratios of the 4matic & 2.3-16 diffs?

Many further thanks to everyone for their input

Darren

 

[nick.ged]

fitting the asd will require the matching steering pump, hose lines and accumulators from an asd car.

better option is a quaif fitted in your std open diff (if it is the larger pumpkin)

i am going to fit quaif when i find an open diff with sutible ratio, in place of the asd that my car has fitted as standard, they ware and becom almost uselesss and are very expensive to rebuild.

 

[mercboiuk]

Right then, a little update!

Of the items this German chap is selling, the aforementioned diff, drive shafts & rear brakes are a no go it seems.

The front wings won't fit apparently.

However, I have one more question relating to the SL500 brakes.

I had my Indy do some background research and he discovered the E500 used the steering knuckles, arms and hubs SL500 (some of which carat 3.6 amg mentioned).
My Indy has only been able to cross reference part numbers, so they are unsure if it's a straight forward mix'n'match style fit.

So my question is will the brakes (calipers, discs, pads & backing plate) fit without changing the other parts?

While I carat kindly pointed out the 129 upgrades may be a good idea, the parts on offer are only the brakes, so I am just looking to do this

Many further thanks for all the advice you guys have offered up. This is why I am pleased to part of MBClub

Darren

 

[d w124]

Darren:The brakes are good enough mate but if you were to change them,how about C32 ones instead??

 

[mercboiuk]

Darren:The brakes are good enough mate but if you were to change them,how about C32 ones instead??

I did look into this a while ago, but my Indy weren't comfortable trimming bits modifying them to fit. Fair enough, I think.

So I settled on a 500 upgrade when the parts became available

Darren

 

[mercboiuk]

Right then, a little update!

Of the items this German chap is selling, the aforementioned diff, drive shafts & rear brakes are a no go it seems.

The front wings won't fit apparently.

However, I have one more question relating to the SL500 brakes.

I had my Indy do some background research and he discovered the E500 used the steering knuckles, arms and hubs SL500 (some of which carat 3.6 amg mentioned).
My Indy has only been able to cross reference part numbers, so they are unsure if it's a straight forward mix'n'match style fit.

So my question is will the brakes (calipers, discs, pads & backing plate) fit without changing the other parts?

While I carat kindly pointed out the 129 upgrades may be a good idea, the parts on offer are only the brakes, so I am just looking to do this

Many further thanks for all the advice you guys have offered up. This is why I am pleased to part of MBClub

Darren

Quoted as my question could be lost on the previous page

Darren

 

[mercboiuk]

Further thanks must go to everyone who has been replying to this thread.

I haven't yet purchased any brakes, but I am researching a couple of offers

Relating to the side-subject of differentials, I have found a couple of 190 diffs for sale on ebay.
I thought I would run them by the learned MBClub members, as I am keen to go this easier route to 30% lock up

First, a 2.3-16 diff - CLICK HERE

Next, one from a 2.5-16 - CLICK HERE

As there is little info in the 2.5 link, I ask you guys and gals what difference, if any is there between these two diffs?
Which would be better for my 124 application?
Are they a straight swap into the 124?
Would any recalibration to my 124 be required?
To what extent could I expect this modification to alter my 0-60 time and top speed, given it would be initially applied to standard E320, with a 3.07 diff?

Is there anything else I, or my Indy, should know before I install such a diff?

As before I would greatly receive any information which could aid my choice.

Many thanks in advance,
Darren

 

[RBYCC]

Darren

Not sure how much a locking diff will give you, but there should be some sweet diff ratios in the Euro cars...

If I recall open diff 3.42, 3.46, 3.67, and even a 3.92 was available that would directly swap into your car.
Lower ratios were found in the manual trans 200D-220E-260E.

The 3.67 will give you significant difference in acceleration at the cost of top speed...

Ed A.

 

[marc.l]

I saw a full w124 twin turbo kit for sale on eBay.de for sale for €2500 euro . Maybe of interest to you .