Mostly Autos, why ? ( c class mainly )

[nick mercedes]

Hi all

My first post here and i was just wondering why it seems that nearly all mercedes ( im mainly looking at the C class models ) seem to be automatic ?

Thank you
Kev75

Because MB manuals are clunky horrible low geared things that don't suit the cars.

 

[crockers]

And just to clarify, manuals are usually better on MPG then autos. This could be because of the way auto's work, when u depress the pedal it'll hold onto its gear for a while (making the engine do more work to move the car) before changing up.

Yes - that's also because the use of a torque converter uses/wastes energy - more modern autos move onto a direct drive system and can be almost as energy efficient as a manual - whereas autos using the double clutch system (no Torque converter) should be more efficient than the manual. Pity MB hasn't yet adopted this route..

 

[flango]

Because MB manuals are clunky horrible low geared things that don't suit the cars.

Absolute rubbish!!!!! My 230 CLK complete with Brabus upgrades has a manual box and to be quite honest I would not have bought it if it had been auto.

Don't know what you have been driving but obviously that is not the experience of me and Adam230k who both run manual cars with gearboxes smooth as silk that change faultless.

 

[flango]

Yes - that's also because the use of a torque converter uses/wastes energy - more modern autos move onto a direct drive system and can be almost as energy efficient as a manual - whereas autos using the double clutch system (no Torque converter) should be more efficient than the manual. Pity MB hasn't yet adopted this route..

Bang on, take the VW DSG system, fantastic piece of kit and the only auto I have driven that is quicker than the manual, + you can drive it as a manual if you wish. See my thread on driving this at the ring last year, very impressed, shame MB autos are no where near this level yet.

 

[wemorgan]

The VW DSG is only an auto by name, in mechanics it's a manual gearbox with electronics to give the driver the functionality of an auto.

 

[verytalldave]

MB auto boxes are acknowledged - even by BMW - that they are the best in the world. Provides a more relaxed driving environment - and if you ever have to do a fair bit of city driving you will bless the day you bought an auto.
Fuel economy is almost the same for manual v auto with MB - they are that good.
C Classes are available in manual, but very few buy them, so they are rare. Except perhaps on the bottom base models. It very rare to get a well specified car with all the belts and whistles but with a manual box.
Dont be frightened - go MB auto - you will never look back or regret it.

 

[flango]

The VW DSG is only an auto by name, in mechanics it's a manual gearbox with electronics to give the driver the functionality of an auto.

Exactly thats why it is so good :bannana:

 

[flango]

MB auto boxes are acknowledged - even by BMW - that they are the best in the world. Provides a more relaxed driving environment - and if you ever have to do a fair bit of city driving you will bless the day you bought an auto.
Fuel economy is almost the same for manual v auto with MB - they are that good.
C Classes are available in manual, but very few buy them, so they are rare. Except perhaps on the bottom base models. It very rare to get a well specified car with all the belts and whistles but with a manual box.
Dont be frightened - go MB auto - you will never look back or regret it.

And as posted before both MB & BMW both acknowledge VW/Audi as currently the best in the world. BMW nearly got it right with their SMG but VW/Audi nailed it. MB unfortunately not in the same league.

If I want a relaxed driving environment then I'll fit some wheels and an engine to my armchair, If I want an involved driving experience then I'll take a manual everytime.

 

[verytalldave]

Each to his own..............

 

[flango]

Each to his own..............

Exactly, like I said earlier eveeryone has and is entitled to their own opinion and as we know opinons vary, thats what stimulates such interesting debates on this forum, long may it continue :bannana:

 

[Smatt]

I have a manual C-coupe- owned for 6yrs. The gearbox is fine & I enjoy driving it.
The foot brake took a little getting used to(for a few days) but that was all!
I would recommend, if it is a manual that you desire

 

[Mr Jadefox]

If I want a relaxed driving environment then I'll fit some wheels and an engine to my armchair, If I want an involved driving experience then I'll take a manual everytime.

I agree that I sometimes missed a manual when I had my Mondeo Auto, but I've never missed the control of a manual box once since I've had the W203 - completely different league.

Also 90% of my journeys are of functional form rather than having an involved driving experience and for those occasions Auto is king (and before you say - that doesn't mean I don't have a driving experience ). Just the thought of going back to a manual in slow moving/queuing traffic for an hour!

 

[crockers]

And as posted before both MB & BMW both acknowledge VW/Audi as currently the best in the world. BMW nearly got it right with their SMG but VW/Audi nailed it. MB unfortunately not in the same league.

In fact Porsche had now adopted the DSG style of box in the PDK (or what ever they call it..)..

As for pure autoboxes with Torque converters Mercedes produce (probably) the best there is ... but the world moves on and MB are slightly behind in this area...

On saying that the Jaguars I drove this weekend had lovely auto boxes too...

IMHO...

 

[flango]

I agree that I sometimes missed a manual when I had my Mondeo Auto, but I've never missed the control of a manual box once since I've had the W203 - completely different league.

Also 90% of my journeys are of functional form rather than having an involved driving experience and for those occasions Auto is king (and before you say - that doesn't mean I don't have a driving experience ). Just the thought of going back to a manual in slow moving/queuing traffic for an hour!

No I agree completely when it comes to slow moving queing traffic Autos are great as I often find when I'm in the US sat on the Atlanta freeway at rush hour.

It does depend upon your type of driving and if mine was a city commute in stop start traffic then I think you have a very valid point and I myself would probably take the auto option ( but it would be DSG)

 

[flango]

In fact Porsche had now adopted the DSG style of box in the PDK (or what ever they call it..)..

As for pure autoboxes with Torque converters Mercedes produce (probably) the best there is ... but the world moves on and MB are slightly behind in this area...

On saying that the Jaguars I drove this weekend had lovely auto boxes too...

IMHO...

Hmmm and Porsche own VW wonder where they got the idea from?

As far as I know Jag are using a version of the Ford Powershift gearbox which is basically a copy of the VW DSG box. They are also fitting this box on some cop spec Volvo's V70 & S60 and having driven the test car I must admit it is pretty impressive.

Will be testing the Jag XKR 5.0 Gen 3 in a few weeks time , 510 bhp 625 Nm of Torque through a DSG type sequential box, now thats going to be fun.

Will post back my thoughts.

 

[st4]

Hmmm and Porsche own VW wonder where they got the idea from?

As far as I know Jag are using a version of the Ford Powershift gearbox which is basically a copy of the VW DSG box. They are also fitting this box on some cop spec Volvo's V70 & S60 and having driven the test car I must admit it is pretty impressive.

Will be testing the Jag XKR 5.0 Gen 3 in a few weeks time , 510 bhp 625 Nm of Torque through a DSG type sequential box, now thats going to be fun.

Will post back my thoughts.

The Jag is a ZF 6speed torque coverter automatic with lock up (which gives direct drive to the wheels).

It is not a DSG type gear box (which is essentially 2 manual gearboxes fused together).

The Ford Powershift system is a DSG system but it has not got the ability to handle the torque that any Jag XF produces. You'll find the same in high powered audis (RS6 etc) have conventional torque convertor auto's as they haven't got a DSG that can handle the torque of a higher powered engine (>300bhp). That is unless they use the specialy designed DSG gearbox by Ricardo in the Bugatti Veyron.

All Jag XF's, XJ's and XK's are 6sp auto cars using the ZF gearbox (which BMW also uses in its automatics).

 

[crockers]

Will be testing the Jag XKR 5.0 Gen 3 in a few weeks time , 510 bhp 625 Nm of Torque through a DSG type sequential box, now thats going to be fun.

Will post back my thoughts.

Drove that + the XFR this weekend - in my opinion the XFR is the far better car at £12k less...so unless you are after a 2 door coupé have a look at the XFR instead..

 

[flango]

The Jag is a ZF 6speed torque coverter automatic with lock up (which gives direct drive to the wheels).

It is not a DSG type gear box (which is essentially 2 manual gearboxes fused together).

The Ford Powershift system is a DSG system but it has not got the ability to handle the torque that any Jag XF produces. You'll find the same in high powered audis (RS6 etc) have conventional torque convertor auto's as they haven't got a DSG that can handle the torque of a higher powered engine (>300bhp). That is unless they use the specialy designed DSG gearbox by Ricardo in the Bugatti Veyron.

All Jag XF's, XJ's and XK's are 6sp auto cars using the ZF gearbox (which BMW also uses in its automatics).

I realise the XF & XK boxes use the ZF 6 speed "Traditional" box but the R type variants will use a DSG type box if not now, then some time in the future, hence the reason we have been asked to performance test it, maybe this is just the prototype car?

Audi RS6 uses auto box with Torque converter but BMW do not, the SMG III as used on the M5 does not have a torque converter. There are plenty of DSG type boxes that will handle high torque / high BHP. The BMW M5 handles 575 bhp OK with an SMG. The BMW M5 ring Taxis are fitted with the new BMW DSG type box undergoing development and they are superb and aparently very reliable as they have been pulled apart for inspection so many times.

There are also plenty of other examples of DSG type boxes on performance cars, Porsche as already mentioned and Maserati to name another.

The cop spec Volvo's also run close to 300 bhp with no problems using Fords modified Powershift system.

 

[Dichtung]

Drive MB Autos now, but in 1972, test drove a nearly new W123 200 Auto and walked away. Notchy and always in the wrong gear!

 

[Howard]

Drive MB Autos now, but in 1972, test drove a nearly new W123 200 Auto and walked away. Notchy and always in the wrong gear!

Did they make w123's in 1972 ?