verytalldave
MB Enthusiast
No harpoon from me. Totally agree with every word. I could have written that myself, but swap Alfa for Lotus.
flango
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Was offered a Lotus Excel last week, in really good nick, bright red and a good price. Guess what it was an automatic
Never new they did them?Auto's are good for town driving or a clogged motorway I admit, does take the hassle out of it
verytalldave
MB Enthusiast
Was offered a Lotus Excel last week, in really good nick, bright red and a good price. Guess what it was an automatic
Auto's are good for town driving or a clogged motorway I admit, does take the hassle out of it
Nor did I.
Despite everything I have said or written, I would not want a Lotus with an automatic gearbox. Just seems so wrong and not in keeping with the sporting aspirations of the marque.
flango
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
verytalldave
MB Enthusiast
Was offered a Lotus Excel last week, in really good nick, bright red and a good price. Guess what it was an automatic
Auto's are good for town driving or a clogged motorway I admit, does take the hassle out of it
What it does do however is give some insight into which direction Lotus were hoping to move back in the 1980's. By offering the option of an auto box, on what was its most prestigious model at the time, Lotus were hoping to move into the area occupied mainly by SLK type cars.
Obviously this never came to be, and quite rightly so. Lotus should always be nothing more than hardcore sporting whereas Mercedes are far more luxury and comfort.
SLR perhaps being the exception depending on your point of view.
Kobus Louw
New Member
I see that the hard core MB fans stick to the belief that MB makes the best Auto box in the world!! Please see my previous letters to this forum regarding the worst box that I have ever driven in my entire 35 years of motoring.
And this is the new C220 CDI which is a real dog to drive, gear shifts harsh, never in the right gear when one put your foot down, bad vibrations at low down torque etc, etc.
The wonderfull thing about this is MB have been telling me for since taking delivery a year ago that this is 100% to specification and to their standard!!!
No more MB for me, I would like to get rid of this night mare ASAP.
And this is the new C220 CDI which is a real dog to drive, gear shifts harsh, never in the right gear when one put your foot down, bad vibrations at low down torque etc, etc.
The wonderfull thing about this is MB have been telling me for since taking delivery a year ago that this is 100% to specification and to their standard!!!
No more MB for me, I would like to get rid of this night mare ASAP.
popuptoaster
Active Member
Autos are alright, faster in a straight line than a manual for most drivers, slow you down a bit cross country as you dont have the contol over the rear wheels a manual box gives you with engine braking. cant see them being more unrelaible, i've been modding cars for years an broken plenty of manual boxes as well as autos, they are just as expensive to fix as an auto if your break the internals.
verytalldave
MB Enthusiast
If you were a little closer I would let you drive mine if I could drive yours.
I find your description of your car most surprising and worrying. I would find a friend who had a similar car and drive his and compare.
I am lost for words. To say that its got the worse box that you have experienced in 35 years does take the biscuit. I would want a 2nd, 3rd and a 4th opinion.
recycled
MB Enthusiast
how did you come across a statement like this? I hope you realise that the part sticking out into the car, is not the only part of a gearbox, so some boxes you may be calling autos are actually manuals and from many spec sheets i have seen, the manuals are faster- 0-60 for the same spec and they have lower emmisions, and are in a lower tax bracket
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recycled
MB Enthusiast
here is a 2nd. my peugeot 405 auto was way better than my c180 auto which was rubbish made funny noises, will not hold the car on park and will not shift quickly. It was only 5years old as well.
My brothers 5series auto was as sweet as a dream though
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I suspect he means most people change gear slowly.
I'm happy to let the car change gear for me, as it can probably do it faster than I can, even though it's a proper old school auto.
popuptoaster
Active Member
i said most drivers, the 0-60 times for cars are not done by normal drivers and are done over and over again to get a good one, autos are far more consistant as the box does the changes and cant fluff it or alter where they hold the clutch and for how many miliseconds they let it slip etc etc like a driver can, cars built specifically for drag racing all use autos as they are, as i said, faster in a straight line for most drivers.
I been running cars at tracks and places like bruntingthorpe with proper timing gear for years, many of the cars swop to auto boxes specifically for the timed acceleration runs and whack a manual back in for track day use. Its VERY hard to match a manufacturers quoted 0-60 in a manual.
recycled
MB Enthusiast
ok alright. i think we may have to clearly define the boxes though as in an earlier thread a few years back some people claim all cars with no clutch is auto
popuptoaster
Active Member
Personally i dont care how they work, if the box is chnaging gear for you its an auto.
i think the auto in my coupe suits it, when the V8 goes in its got an auto on the back of that as well, 3 speed though rather thn 4 speed so we'll see what its like, not that mine ever uses 4 speeds anyway. lol
i think the auto in my coupe suits it, when the V8 goes in its got an auto on the back of that as well, 3 speed though rather thn 4 speed so we'll see what its like, not that mine ever uses 4 speeds anyway. lol
flango
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Think we need to be careful here that we are comparing like for like, I've been involved in Motorsport for 30 years including a stint as a works test driver so here's my 2p worth.
Auto Vs Manual on a drag strip 1/4 mile totally depends on the type of car and box, some autos will be quicker depending on engine performance and gear ratio's but most of the speed records held at York raceway near me are held by manual cars, Andy Forests Subaru Imprezza springs to mind fastest in its class and manual
http://www.andyforrestperformance.co.uk/index2.html
Some people refer to DSG type boxes as auto's when in fact they are not (but can be driven on an auto license). In this case then yes the DSG Auto will always be faster than a manual (see the Nurburgring thread where we put a Golf GTi DSG through its paces)
Manufacturers 0 - 60 times are an average of 10 runs with the same driver and are measured 5 times in one direction then 5 times in the reverse direction. Usually for a competent driver the manufacturers time can be matched.
Lot of good info in this THREAD which has some actual test data in there
Just my opinion though
Kobus Louw
New Member
Most of the motoring mags in our country (South Africa) which have tested the new C220 CDI have made comments regarding the transmission which I could relate to very well. Some internet surfing has shown that the very same problems have been experianced in Australia, India and the Netherlands etc.
Once again this was communicated to MB and their answer to this" on should be carefull as to what is published in some mags as they might be bias towards some brands"!!!
I have had the car back for 3 soft ware upgrades and a valve body replacement which had some minor improvements but most deffinately not sorted the problem. MB just do not want to know about my problem and since new no one has ever driven this car from MB (one service manager had the car for 2 days after which he came back with the same reply" car 100% within specification and normal" which I would not have expected any other responds)
I hate every Km that I drive in this car!!!
Once again this was communicated to MB and their answer to this" on should be carefull as to what is published in some mags as they might be bias towards some brands"!!!
I have had the car back for 3 soft ware upgrades and a valve body replacement which had some minor improvements but most deffinately not sorted the problem. MB just do not want to know about my problem and since new no one has ever driven this car from MB (one service manager had the car for 2 days after which he came back with the same reply" car 100% within specification and normal" which I would not have expected any other responds)
I hate every Km that I drive in this car!!!
popuptoaster
Active Member
Think we need to be careful here that we are comparing like for like, I've been involved in Motorsport for 30 years including a stint as a works test driver so here's my 2p worth.
Auto Vs Manual on a drag strip 1/4 mile totally depends on the type of car and box, some autos will be quicker depending on engine performance and gear ratio's but most of the speed records held at York raceway near me are held by manual cars, Andy Forests Subaru Imprezza springs to mind fastest in its class and manual
http://www.andyforrestperformance.co.uk/index2.html
Some people refer to DSG type boxes as auto's when in fact they are not (but can be driven on an auto license). In this case then yes the DSG Auto will always be faster than a manual (see the Nurburgring thread where we put a Golf GTi DSG through its paces)
Manufacturers 0 - 60 times are an average of 10 runs with the same driver and are measured 5 times in one direction then 5 times in the reverse direction. Usually for a competent driver the manufacturers time can be matched.
Lot of good info in this THREAD which has some actual test data in there
Just my opinion though
i also said most cars built for drag racing use autos, not cars modified for drag racing, but your right the WRX scoobies are fast, but they are also 4x4 and not available as an auto as far as i'm aware, york works well with 4x4s as its not the grippiest strip around so who knows what an auto 4x4 with the same power could run, probably not much difference i'll admit if were talking about proper race boxes that allow you full bore changes without letting up on the gas, but that still makes it a semi auto in my eyes if its doing the clutch changes for you.
flango
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
popuptoaster
Active Member
im gonna take my coupe up the strip when the Poncho lump has been fitted, hopefully will be ready in a couple of months, need to source an LSD though really, even the straight 6 can spin a wheel. :S
My partner has the W204 C220 - it's a great car, which would have been a mistake in manual. But, the auto gearbox is not much fun. It's slow to react when you move away from stationary (in comfort or sport), changing gears manually is time wasted, and it often feels like it's not in the right gear. It seems to take forever to realise Reverse has been selected.
In comparison; I have a manual 118d; it's slightly less powerful, but nicer to drive and changing gears is fun. (except when I am stuck in traffic on M25)
