Need e320 CDI injector help

[mdelfunt]

Hey team - new here. I may be in the wrong place but I didn't see a specific diesel section. I'm struggling with what I thought was a simple job of changing the injector seals on my 06 CDI. I started with the first one and its still an ongoing process.

After pulling the first injector and changing the seal and putting back together, she will crank over but will not start. Turned the key off and on a few times but nothing. I loosened the fuel line going to #1 injector and there is fuel coming out. Thinking that the injectors are not openning, I've started looking at possible fuses that I might have blown but can't find which fuses might be the root cause. This seems so dumb that changing the injector has caused this. I'm going to see if there are any codes but since there has been no-start since I finished, I don't know if anything will be there. I read that it may take a long time to crank after changing the injector due to air. I've about run my battery down and no luck.

AND while bleeding some fuel out if the fuel line to that injector, some fuel went down around the injector and it's BUBBLING, Crap. The new seal didn't seal. When I did the job, I cleaned the surface of the head and injector. A little bit ago, I tried to see if the stretch bolt would tighten a little more to see if the injector was loose and sure enough, the bolt striped the fragile aluminum threads. I've ordered a TIME-Sert kit to redo the threads. What a pain in the butt. While waiting on that, I'm pulling the next leaking injector. God only knows what else I'm going to run into. Still looking for wisdom on why it wouldn't' start and any other advise. Thanks team!

Mark

 

[bob6600]

Is it the 3.2 IL6 or 3.0 V6?

They can take a lot of cranking, it can flatten the battery

If everything is back on correctly, no reason why should not start unless air is getting in.

Did you use new stretch bolts and tighten to the correct torque?

 

[mdelfunt]

Hey Bob - thanks for jumping in. My 06 is an in-line 3.2 6 cylinder. Yes, I ordered new stretch bolts and seals from the dealer. I just removed the second injector while waiting on the Time Sert kit due tomorrow. What do you do to make sure the new seal actually seals? Could it be that the reason the new one was leaking was that the torque of the bolt wasn't tight enough or could I have done something else wrong? Does the seal have a direction it goes in? I noticed it was slightly crowned in one direction. I've read where some people heat the seal before putting it in. I didn't put any grease on it like some have said they do.

I'm also getting concerned whether the injectors need to be rebuilt or replaced. I'm not sure how to tell. Just after taking the second injector out and laying the coil cap and assembly on the table, I notices a very small round part (like a tiny round object with a dimple on one side) laying there. I don't know where it came from and can't yet find a detailed assembly diagram for the injector. So - my confidence is wavering a little in my existing ejetors.

And to add more pain, the overflow hose that connects to the top of the injectors broke. Don't know if that's a dealer item or whether I can get that anywhere.

Sorry to be long winded but I sure need some council

Mark

 

[mdelfunt]

oh... and I torqued the bolt to 7nm + 90 + almost 90 ( I got scared)

 

[bob6600]

oh... and I torqued the bolt to 7nm + 90 + almost 90 ( I got scared)

Haha that's as far as I went too!

Depending on how pitted the faces are, you may need to cut them. Some say they do it every time, others never. Personally I have never cut a thread, they have always cleaned up well and sealed well.

Did you take the injector apart to remove it? If so, you will need it rebuilt/recalibrated or replaced

 

[merc85]

You can be a diesel leak off kit, ebay but for peace of mind i bought a genuine fuel line which was already assembled and fitted a treat i think it was around £100.

Cant help on your non starting issue sorry :/ I've heard the seats will need clean up/cutting before refitting new seals.

 

[mdelfunt]

I took the coil off but that's all. I've read from some that using the slide hammer that screws on the top of the injector will damage it, I hope not. There is one tiny part that came out that I don't know where it went. Can't find a picture detailed enough to help.
1) I really don't know how to tell whether any of the injectors are ok or not.
2) I don't know if my cleaning job on #1 injector wasn't good enough or whether the bolt didn't hold it down enough. I can't see any pitting. I have a cutter but don't wont to use it unless I have to.
3) Now that I have the second injector out, I worry about trying to start it after getting it all back together - given that I couldn't get it started after removing one. And I have at least 1 more to do after these 2.
4) If I have to buy injectors, the US price is very high but it looks like the European version is much less. It looks like I would have to buy them (Bosch 0445110177) from a supplier in Europe and have them shipped here.

Any thoughts on the items above? Thanks for the help.

 

[bob6600]

1. If you have lost the ball bearing it will need refurb or replacement IMO

2. If it is clean enough then at that torque it should stop leaking. Was the bolt hole clean? And I mean CLEAN?

3. Again if injectors are in working order it should eventually start. If in doubt, send them away for refurb

4. You could try EuroCarParts or ebay

 

[mdelfunt]

I should say that I took the coil, little round disk, and spring out too - anything on the top of the injector but did not take the injector itself apart.

 

[mdelfunt]

Bob - where is the ball bearing you refer to?

 

[bob6600]

I'm assuming it's the ball (5)

 

[mdelfunt]

ok, that looks like its down in the injector as opposed to being under the coil assembly. There's a large Allen screw that's on top of the injector that looks like it would have to be removed for that ball bearing to come out. Is that how you see it?

 

[coneybiller]

Have you carried out a leak off test of the injectors to see if its leaking off too much?
If it is leaking off too much then it will drag the rail pressure down enough to stop the rest of the injectors working. Hence no start condition. I had a non starting issue, carried out a leak off test and discovered injector 2 leaking off excessively, replaced it and shes good as new again!

 

[mdelfunt]

Hey coneybiller, no, I have not. Since last night I decided to buy 3 new injectors because I was loosing confidence in the old ones (240k miles) after the no-crank issue + they took a beating coming out. I may need a 4th one. So at this stage, she's empty 3 injectors waiting on new ones that may arrive tomorrow or Friday.
- How do I do a leak test on the remaining injectors?
- How does a person tell when a injector is bad?
Thanks again!

 

[mdelfunt]

I got her running today. Replaced #1,2,6 injector with new ones. Put an M8x1.25 time-cert in #1 with a 40MM M8 bolt torqued to 19Nm; this worked great. All three are holding their seal at this stage. I STILL have one leaking - #4, which I plan to change in the next day or two. FYI, I did not replace the clamps.

For cranking, I kept #1,2,6 injector lines loose while I cranked a little and then tightened them all down. After cranking the second time, she fired up.

She still runs rough - vibrating a fair amount. In effect, I can't tell the difference from before I changed the 3 seals and injectors above. I don't know how much one leaky injector seal causes an engine to vibrate and I'm wondering if there is something else that I don't know about.

How does a person tell whether the vibration problem is the leaky seal on #4 or one of the remaining 3 injectors?

 

[coneybiller]

Is it "chuffing" really badly? If it's leaking passed the injector seal that badly it will be badly down on compression and give a misfire, hence vibration.

Leak off test, to test the injectors is really simple. Just take the leak off pipe out of the top of the injectors and crank it over. If 1 or more injectors is spewing out diesel then it's knackered. They will leak fuel out anyway, but if 1 or 2 leak fuel more than the rest, then they could do with replacing. It's messy but it works. There is actually kits you can buy that come with little tubes with measuring levels on, that you plug into the leak off port on the injectors. But you can judge it without.

 

[mdelfunt]

It's not "chuffing" now. It WAS before #1 injector was replaced. #4 is leaking but you can't hear it, you can see it bubbling around the base when you put some soapy water.

 

[mdelfunt]

Team,
I've had a different thread going in the past few days but I'm trying to center in on the latest, and one if my original issues.

What I was originally trying to solve was a progressively growing vibration issue in the cabin at idle. I had 4 injector leaks (black death) and I had thought that was the root cause of the vibration. However, after changing the seals and buying 3 new injectors, there is literally no difference in the vibration (I feel dumb). I did an injector leak test today for about 6 minutes and the results are:
#1 - 40ml (new)
#2 - 42ml (new)
#3 - 45ml
#4 - 46ml
#5 - 48ml
#6 - 43ml (new)

- This is my first injector test but they don't seem that far out to me. Note that #1,2,6 are brand new.
- I changed the fuel filter and cleaned the MAF, Replaced the air filter today.
- There are no codes being thrown.
- There are no injector leaks.
- I have not had the injectors coded yet but that is scheduled next Tuesday.
- I have not checked the engine or tranny mounts.
- The vibration is bad in park, neutral, drive (though not same in any) and seems the least when in reverse. I don't have any shifting issues.
- When acceleration is increased, I don't really feel the problem; it's mostly at idle.

So, looking for some wisdom from you guys