Negotiating deals impossible??

[rf065]

This is one of the reasons that the manufactures are not selling enough EVs to make the numbers required to meet the punitive regulations coming in and they need them softened.

Ford announced this week that 800 workers will be laid off as sales of their EV's in the UK are just not happening.
One of the motoring journos bought a new Mercedes EQS for £85,000 - after 3 months and 2000 miles he asked for a trade in price and was told £42,000!
And to top it all, the last report I read said diesel car sales are increasing!

 

[aofelix]

Ford announced this week that 800 workers will be laid off as sales of their EV's in the UK are just not happening.
One of the motoring journos bought a new Mercedes EQS for £85,000 - after 3 months and 2000 miles he asked for a trade in price and was told £42,000!
And to top it all, the last report I read said diesel car sales are increasing!

How did he get it for £85k?
I'm still trying to decide if my deal is good or not lol.


1k down, £950/month. 48 months.
44K to buy at end of 48 months (outstanding balance, 0% APR, 0% interest)
£95k total value can claim for £25k tax
£2.5-4k claimable tax for 4 years


I'm still confused if I had tonnes of room to manoeuvre or not re: price. Not sure how he managed to get it for £85k. It was £106k RRP business model.

 

[BTB 500]

And to top it all, the last report I read said diesel car sales are increasing!

The SMMT publishes new car registration figures monthly, for the previous month and year-to-date. BEV market share for 2024 so far is running at 18.1%, up from 16.3% for the same period in 2023. Hybrids have also increased market share, but petrol and diesel are down (availability of these models has reduced as manufacturers try to avoid being fined for failing to meet the government's 22% market share target for BEVs this year).

Car Registrations

SMMT is the country’s primary source of data on the motor industry. Click here for the SMMT car registrations data published monthly

www.smmt.co.uk

 

[markjay]

...Whatever view - it's not really a healthy market where a S Class or Taycan is effectively being subsidised by the UK tax payer. The government should have capped the subsidy.

I can understand the reluctance to subsidise EVs, and Net Zero, and other 'green' initiatives, but I am not sure why some models should be treated differently to others?

If you don't subsidise EVs at the top end of the market, then the people who buy or hire them will get a petrol or Diesel car instead, and with a big V6 or V8 engine.

Again, I can understand the argument against subsidising EVs in general, but if we are subsidising EVs, then it make no sense to incentivise transition to EVs only for the low end of the market, while leaving the luxury end to ICE cars.

 

[Dryce]

If you don't subsidise EVs at the top end of the market, then the people who buy or hire them will get a petrol or Diesel car instead, and with a big V6 or V8 engine.

The problem is getting EVs out into the mass market to make a real difference.

S-Class or Taycan don't really cut it on that front.

A better approach would be to cap any benefits and target them on cars under under £25K and to a lesser extent under £40K.

 

[ALFAitalia]

If the Taycan team could offer me a similar package, I'd go for a green Taycan probably but then insurance is £1.5-2k more per year.
My other option is Audi, which is probably a good one but something tells me in the in-car experience of the Mercedes will be better, and I'm not convinced the Audi will hold its value either. Also I'm then subject to interest again.

On looks alone I thing the Audi Etron GT is a far better looking car than the Taycan....its basically the same car in a sharper suit....to my eyes at least.

You all of course realise that there is no such thing as zero percent interest/finance on a car loan whether its lease, HP or PCP. Money is not free to borrow and has to be paid for one way or the other. Sometimes its the dealer, sometimes its the marque....either way you will pay in the long run.....mainly by them nor being able to give such a good deal on the car so they car afford to pay the actual money lender.

 

[aofelix]

On looks alone I thing the Audi Etron GT is a far better looking car than the Taycan....its basically the same car in a sharper suit....to my eyes at least.

You all of course realise that there is no such thing as zero percent interest/finance on a car loan whether its lease, HP or PCP. Money is not free to borrow and has to be paid for one way or the other. Sometimes its the dealer, sometimes its the marque....either way you will pay in the long run.....mainly by them nor being able to give such a good deal on the car so they car afford to pay the actual money lender.


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The Audi looks a bit too small for me

I was jealous of the GLE my sister bought today.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Same car... so surely same size?....not checked though.
EDIT.....the Audi is actually very slightly bigger outside...same inside.

Frpm the Google...

The Audi e-tron GT and Porsche Taycan are similar in size, with the e-tron GT being slightly longer and wider:

• Length: The e-tron GT is 4,997 mm long, while the Taycan Cross Turismo is 4,974 mm long.
• Width: The e-tron GT is 1,964 mm wide without the mirrors, and the Taycan Cross Turismo is 1,967 mm wide without the mirrors.
• Height: The e-tron GT is 1,389 mm high.

 

[aofelix]

Same car... so surely same size?....not checked though.

both he Porsche and the audi feel a bit small. I know they aren't inside width wise but a bit low.

my two family members own GLEs so... I guess everything looks small compared to them.

 

[Pontoneer]

I tried to negotiate for a new EQS today. Seemed impossible. They give you the website price off and then a small token gesture price off. Nothing substantial. Is this normal now with the pricing model?
RRP 107k. I was hoping to get it for closer to 85-90k. was I being a bit silly for a new fully loaded EQS car?

In days gone by there were waiting lists of 1-2 years , and if you wanted a car more quickly you had to go to brokers who would buy ‘delivery mileage’ cars from people who had waited on the list then sold at a profit , then sold them on at a mark up , or hope that a dealer had a cancellation, which they would then offer at a premium above list price .

My father used to order his next car as he was taking delivery of the one he’d ordered last time round - that was normal then , and discounts were unheard of , except to employees , who could get one car a year and sell it on after a set period ( or not be allowed another one if they broke the rules ) .

 

[Pontoneer]

I’m guessing they have huge investments in EV, electronic infrastructure etc so long term will benefit the taxpayers and population

We would hope !

I will never buy an EV , and from where I sit all the infrastructure should be paid for wholly by those who choose to drive them .

It is far from certain that EVs will be a long term thing rather than a fad .

 

[Pontoneer]

The SMMT publishes new car registration figures monthly, for the previous month and year-to-date. BEV market share for 2024 so far is running at 18.1%, up from 16.3% for the same period in 2023. Hybrids have also increased market share, but petrol and diesel are down (availability of these models has reduced as manufacturers try to avoid being fined for failing to meet the government's 22% market share target for BEVs this year).

View attachment 164331

Car Registrations

SMMT is the country’s primary source of data on the motor industry. Click here for the SMMT car registrations data published monthly

www.smmt.co.uk

Most people will just keep what they have rather than buy something they don’t want

 

[Dryce]

It is far from certain that EVs will be a long term thing rather than a fad .

I think it's pretty certain they are not a fad.

There are issues - plenty of people I know are put off because they don't have driveways on which to charge the things. There are some of us where usage patterns don't suit affordable EVs. But at the same time there are plenty of people who could be running EVs but don't (or don't yet).

 

[Pontoneer]

I think it's pretty certain they are not a fad.

There are issues - plenty of people I know are put off because they don't have driveways on which to charge the things. There are some of us where usage patterns don't suit affordable EVs. But at the same time there are plenty of people who could be running EVs but don't (or don't yet).

I think there are lots of reasons why they will not be a long term solution .

Cost and difficulty of charging infrastructure, the inconvenience of recharging and limited range of many EVs ( some being measured in tens of miles rather than hundreds ) , generating capacity , cost thereof and environmental impact , limited resources in the earth to make the batteries , deterioration of charge capacity over time , difficulty of recycling spent battery packs , difficulty of repairing even minor damage to EVs and consequent hike in insurance costs ( with other drivers doubtless being penalised as well ) , lithium ion fires ( both danger and difficulty of extinguishing ) . Not least of course is the cost of these vehicles compared to alternatives , many even now choose to simply not own cars at all ! The list is endless .

Hydrogen looks like a better solution , and other technologies may be around the corner .

I don’t envisage EVs being around all that long ; it is pretty certain the general public don’t want them .

 

[Dryce]

Cost and difficulty of charging infrastructure, the inconvenience of recharging and limited range of many EVs ( some being measured in tens of miles rather than hundreds ) , generating capacity , cost thereof and environmental impact , limited resources in the earth to make the batteries , deterioration of charge capacity over time , difficulty of recycling spent battery packs , difficulty of repairing even minor damage to EVs and consequent hike in insurance costs ( with other drivers doubtless being penalised as well ) , lithium ion fires ( both danger and difficulty of extinguishing ) . Not least of course is the cost of these vehicles compared to alternatives , many even now choose to simply not own cars at all ! The list is endless .

The issues of recycling and maintenance are going to hit ICE vehicles as well. Manufacturers are going to price the modern vehicles out of the market as they age. Too much complexity and too much control/avarice over servicing and maintenance and subscriptions.

It doesn't look as if the foibles around EVs are not resolvable for a large number of buyers. It just requires some pragmatism - the dogmatic advocates for and against need to shut up - and manufacturers need to sort out where they are going as they and government have been in cloud cuckoo land.

Thing is - EVs do work. And for a large number of people they are viable. But at the same time the products are expensive and sometimes irritating (or even stupid). And the relative attractiveness varies depending on peoples' circumstances.

Hydrogen looks like a better solution , and other technologies may be around the corner .

Molecules vs electrons.

There's a lot of work being done on hydrogen - but I think this is more for commercial / business operations than private vehicles.

 

[Pontoneer]

I’m sitting through a seminar on firefighting in waste management and metal recycling centres .

The last two hours have been about the dangers of Lithium Ion batteries and modern vehicles containing them - not just EVs .

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I think there are lots of reasons why they will not be a long term solution .

Cost and difficulty of charging infrastructure, the inconvenience of recharging and limited range of many EVs ( some being measured in tens of miles rather than hundreds ) , generating capacity , cost thereof and environmental impact , limited resources in the earth to make the batteries , deterioration of charge capacity over time , difficulty of recycling spent battery packs , difficulty of repairing even minor damage to EVs and consequent hike in insurance costs ( with other drivers doubtless being penalised as well ) , lithium ion fires ( both danger and difficulty of extinguishing ) . Not least of course is the cost of these vehicles compared to alternatives , many even now choose to simply not own cars at all ! The list is endless .

Hydrogen looks like a better solution , and other technologies may be around the corner .

I don’t envisage EVs being around all that long ; it is pretty certain the general public don’t want them .

Much of your list will be true for hydrogen, although electricity and EVs have a big head start.

For example replacement of hydrogen tanks after a major accident doesn’t hit the headlines at the moment because there are only a few hundred in the UK and Toyota themselves are running a fleet of them within that number.

Hydrogen cars which are not owned and operated by the manufacturer or part of a manufacturer backed scheme are exceptionally few and far between. As a result insurance and accident repairs are so rare that they are inconsequential.

 

[markjay]

I will never buy an EV , and from where I sit all the infrastructure should be paid for wholly by those who choose to drive them .

Not such an odd suggestion. In fact, that was the original idea behind the Road Fund Licence, BTW.

I have no issue with public chargers being run commercially and without government subsidies, in the same way that petrol stations are run.

The same goes for the production and distribution of electricity, the cost should be covered by the consumers.

It would be interesting to know if this isn't the case already, though?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

On looks alone I thing the Audi Etron GT is a far better looking car than the Taycan....its basically the same car in a sharper suit....to my eyes at least.

You all of course realise that there is no such thing as zero percent interest/finance on a car loan whether its lease, HP or PCP. Money is not free to borrow and has to be paid for one way or the other. Sometimes its the dealer, sometimes its the marque....either way you will pay in the long run.....mainly by them nor being able to give such a good deal on the car so they car afford to pay the actual money lender.


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Shush, you’ll scare the children !

How else are they going to shove motors into the unsuspecting world without “free” money?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Iwould be interesting to know if this isn't the case already, though?

I certainly don’t recall having ever seen charging points which are provided by the Government or local Government - they’re all commercially operations - either charging companies, fuel companies or destinations (eg shops, hotels, etc).